Can a Boy Wear a Skirt to School?

[Adamantine]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/fashi ... ef=fashion

and related about health care and sodomy related issues.
http://www.ontopmag.com/article.aspx?id ... ategory=26




There are 4,118 gay-straight alliance clubs in high schools across the country, which raise awareness of such issues. Gender-boundary questions are even bubbling up in elementary schools, with parents seeking to pave the way for their children, in blogs like acceptingdad.com and labelsareforjars.wordpress.com.



My COMMENT

First if there are 4,118 Gar straight alliances how many High School Christian Bible Studies or Prayer Groups exist?

A large number of studies have suggested that allowing or encouraging "cross dressing" in young children confuses later gender issues. This has been most easily seen where little boys were placed in dresses. The Bible tell us to keep some sort of gender related dressing issues alive. The world will slowly argue for "freedom"

I agree with the Bible "There is a way which seems right to man but the end thereof is death. Almost everyone I know now accepts that except but for the most extreme examples a women may dress like a man. I am just old enough to remember debates about girls wearing pants to school. Now that is a non issue. Something is driving the ever increasing gender issues changes in our world and the studies will now never be done looking at that issue and its influence on development. The same thing is true now about gender roles. Society has accepted ever more variation. My mothers generation would never have been excited about Sarah Palin for they would have commented that she was running the state of Alaska but not her own family. My mother would have said had Sarah Palin "been at home" then her daughter would not have been a teenage pregnancy. But that is no longer a strong issue among many "Christian " families. Exactly where the correct balance lies with dress and gender roles exists that will lead to males being men and females being women remains to be seen. I suggest that most of the American world no longer knows and is less and less even willing to venture a guess. On all fronts particularly to embellish freedom and development (especially of young women) old style dress codes, behavior codes, gender roles are being destroyed. Mothers seem proud if there daughter is in hockey and the society is happy when a young girl breaks into any previously all male preserve.
Now a a growing number of people are pleased to see their sons break into previously all female preserves. I have sons and regardless of how they "turn out" they will never wear makeup, ear rings, or anything that even hints at the feminine. Not on my watch.
Mothers across the nation do not seem to be adhering to old standards or giving recommendations to their daughters with a desire to make them feminine. They want their daughters to do all and be anything they desire. This especially involves pushing back all past boundaries of anything that would seem to limit the female. Gender roles are being changed and destroyed for the sake of freedom. Something is leading to an ever increasing number of homosexuals who are proud of their orientation. I think the Bible tells of ways to direct (orient) children but even the churches are moving from these paths. No one even wants paths anymore.

[Swayde]

I got upset last week when a local high school had a "Gender Switch" day and encouraged the students to show their "school spirit" by dressing as the opposite gender. I was appalled and saddened to see so many of the youth group teens participating in this, and flaunting it with their pictures. My husband (non believer) thought I was being absolutely silly for disapproving of such a thing and saying how it was all just for fun. I think it's a compromise and one that should be abhorred, especially in light of the Bible specifically addressing that women are not to wear men's clothing and vice-versa. I do not have a problem with women wearing pants, if the are pants designed for women. I do however have a problem with men and women deliberately attempting to dress like the opposite sex =(

[GodsStudent]

The little boy (2nd or 3rd grade) who lives next door wants to play with my daughter's barbies, fix her American Girl doll's hair, watch her American Girl videos and is now wearing his ballet tights around the yard to play in. He takes ballet classes locally, but I was stunned the other day when he showed up to play with my daughter with black tights and a tshirt on. The following day, my daughter told me that they came in from school and he had worn these tights and a tshirt to school.

I have to be honest. It is disturbing to watch. Especially from a family who claims to be evangelical christian, and who attends an evangelical christian church.

[soonverysoon]

It is not right and should be stopped. I don't care what anyone else says about it. They are wrong. And this is sick. Poor little kids.



soonverysoon

[Adamantine]

Because of my line of work I once reviewed the literature which related to dressing young boys in girls clothes and the results are not good. Not wise. The damage may already have been done but by prayer and changes maybe a good outcome can be hoped for.

[SwordofGideon]

Would this have even been an issue a couple of decades ago? We've lost our moral compass. What is right is wrong and what is wrong is right.

[Adamantine]

The most politically incorrect thing I can speak to is that in some way (which I am unable to fathom) men are probably responsible for accelerating a shift to lesbianism and women for accelerating a shift to "gay" homosexuality.
While it is probably a small part and only emblematic I suggest women are dressing too non gendered.
Also if a young girl plays hockey and weight lifts she is at risk of becoming more athletic than the young boy whose parents are too stupid and fail to make sure their son can out "bench press" the girls. It is a matter of comparison.
The women of ancient Gaul were excellent warriors but they did not outdo their men.
It is not just a matter of dress in that a weakling in character and body young man dressed in masculine clothes is still a weakling.
Dress is simply a marker and a pattern to fill. But patterns do lead.
These things used to be understood just in the same way we all knew one needed to breathe fresh air.

[Gods_rambunctious_child]

No surprises here. Throw out the "male god" from your schools...not to soon afterwards..throw out the male humans.
-Grc

[wimsmom]

I just had to comment. Our culture screams at us to accept differences--but only the differences that are "mainstream". Women are the most unforgiving. The standard U.S. uniform for women seems to be tight jeans and some kind of top. Deviate from that at your own risk! I don't think that dress choice affects salvation. However, I want my girls to be girls and my boys to be boys. My baby girl wears dresses all of the time. Just the other day my two year old son saw my daughter in her pretty dress and said, "AWW, Gigi pwincess". Never in a million years would my boys be allowed to wear a dress or skirt (well unless it was a kilt, for the scottish side of our family!) I wear skirts most of the time. I feel like an oddity in my nice suburban area. Most stores don't even sell skirts or dresses that don't show more skin than I care to show. I get most of my skirts at an Israeli website! Now, my husband loves my dresses and skirts and no, I don't look amish. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I am treated much better by men in public when I am dressed, *gasp* like a female. The women, on the other hand, look at me like I've grown two heads. I love having my children holding on to my skirts. I love being a wife and a mom and a homeschooler--most of the time and yes, I have a college degree--magna cum laude, baby. My job now is way harder than school was. It's hard to bring children up in a culture that just screams "WRONG" to everything I know is right. Sorry for the rant.

[extravagantchristian]

Would this have even been an issue a couple of decades ago? We've lost our moral compass. What is right is wrong and what is wrong is right.

That is so true. And we can thank the media for that.

[sewfancy]

It was less than a hundred years ago that young boys up to about 8 or 9 wore dresses or robes. Trousers were too hard to make for growing children so mothers kept their youngest boys in dress. Clothes were all hand made in those days. Look at the paintings of King Henry the 8th as a child... dresses. Dresses on boy children don't make them into homosexuals. In fact, if you look around the world, many cultures have men in robes or "dresses". They are easier to make, clean, and live in, in most non-western cultures. It was a rite of passage in the past for boys to be given trousers.
However, confusing practice at being girls does contribute to the epidemic of homosexuality. I don't allow my boys to put on lipstick, walk about in effeminate ways but truly as Dr. Dobson says, a masculine role model is effective in properly training boys to become men. If they are trained as girls, they may long to become as girls. Sometimes, it has nothing to do with it, but is more because of experiences that have clouded their judgment early on. Sometimes it is temptation that they give into.
I'm not for "cross-dressing days", but I don't think they are as damaging as being made out to believe. Most of the warnings in the Bible are against "practicing" such things. don't make it a regular occurance, but one pep rally day with cross dressing is not going to do it.
sewfancy

[LandscapeMan]

Where I come from he could but he better not. If he did he needs to be the meanest man in town.

[mightymac]

only if he's on the girls' field hockey team.

honestly, as a woman, I love my jeans, and nearly ALWAYS wear pants to work. And I played little league baseball with the boys instead of softball with the girls. And being a tom-boy my entire youth didn't make me a lesbian. In fact, it infuriated me when people somehow assumed that! Even my youngest daughter plays soccer on a boys team (she's a starter too. and she's very pretty, has a Christian boyfriend who she just holds hands and bashes obama with.) I actually experienced opposing team parents complaining about her being out there last weekend. They were yelling stuff to their boys that if she wants to play with the boys you gotta treat her like a boy. uh, excuse me, we're playing soccer and you'd better watch it cuz that little girl just might take your little johnny out with a well placed slide tackle. She is a player. period. most boys who come up against her don't need mommy on the sidelines - as soon as they get "owned" by a girl, the gloves come off and we get down to playing ball. I only get mad when they play dirty and that would be for any kid on the team. And interestingly, she played varsity this fall as a freshman and commented that the girls were much rougher and the training session much more difficult than the boys. (some of those girls are mighty solid women, not scrawny, knuckle-kneed little boys! LOL)

As for gender ROLES --- my kids totally get the whole responsiblities thing - but there is not really "womens work" vs. "mens work" but that God in his infinite wisdom created us to be more suited for particular things. Women carry and bear babies, but that doenst mean that dad cant change diapers or feed the kids. Dad usually mows the lawn while I do dishes and laundry, (dad NEVER does laundry but we have all seen his brother do his at their parents house)and he washes dishes but doesn't load the dishwasher. he also will mix the cement but then have me actually lay it in the spaces btwn the stones on the walkway. He will paint the walls and ceiling but I always do the doors and molding. Strengths and weaknesses. Dad rebuilt the entire backyard and dug a 60-foot trench to a drywell. When he threw his back out, yeah I could mow the lawn but the trench and drywell sat there until he got better. I also don't do well around bugs - he feeds the turtles worms he finds (and cleans their tanks). And if one of my girls wants to be a fireman, well she better be able to carry that 200 pound man out the window and down the ladder or she better find something else. And when it comes to leadership, we all seem more comfortable with men in the lead yet when it is necessary, women step to the plate. I always go back to the last section in Proverbs - the noble woman -- what a description of the woman who does it all! (and gets the recognition she deserves to boot! ) God clearly wants us to be all we can be with what He has given us and under His Guidance. Boys need to see that the Bible tells them exactly how to be great men, and at least from what I saw in movies and the history channel, men were wearing "dresses." Manhood and Womanhood are first and foremost what is on the inside.

[Swayde]

only if he's on the girls' field hockey team.

honestly, as a woman, I love my jeans, and nearly ALWAYS wear pants to work. And I played little league baseball with the boys instead of softball with the girls. And being a tom-boy my entire youth didn't make me a lesbian. In fact, it infuriated me when people somehow assumed that! Even my youngest daughter plays soccer on a boys team (she's a starter too. and she's very pretty, has a Christian boyfriend who she just holds hands and bashes obama with.) I actually experienced opposing team parents complaining about her being out there last weekend. They were yelling stuff to their boys that if she wants to play with the boys you gotta treat her like a boy. uh, excuse me, we're playing soccer and you'd better watch it cuz that little girl just might take your little johnny out with a well placed slide tackle. She is a player. period. most boys who come up against her don't need mommy on the sidelines - as soon as they get "owned" by a girl, the gloves come off and we get down to playing ball. I only get mad when they play dirty and that would be for any kid on the team. And interestingly, she played varsity this fall as a freshman and commented that the girls were much rougher and the training session much more difficult than the boys. (some of those girls are mighty solid women, not scrawny, knuckle-kneed little boys! LOL)

Just curious, please be honest. Did you ever have to deal with a rebellious spirit? I was also very much a tomboy and so were many of my friends and we all had to battle with a spirit of rebelliousness in various degrees and myself and several others had to deal with some very serious consequences because of our rebelliousness.

[mightymac]

All of us are rebellious - we are sinners. However, when I was young, I was not what most would call rebellious. If anything, I always knew the rules and was terrified of their consequences. I stayed a virgin till I had a husband. I never smoked, ever. I can count on 1 hand how many times I drank before the age of 21, and I would not need all my fingers (honestly, I think it was only once at a graduation party.) But my twin daughters have made up for that in spades. I could right a book on the rebelliousness of my girls, especially one with whom we are still entangled with troubles thanks to a no-good boyfriend who has enticed her with alcohol, drugs, smokes of all sorts, and sex. EVERYday is another headache and I like being at work where I can have a reprieve from her. She offends me - period. I love her, but I do not like her. (and please no parenting help unless you have already been down the mental health ward hallways(at least a dozen times), police stations, and been investigated by Child protective services. There are few greater evils in this world than people who get paid to destroy families (and don't generally have or come from very functional ones themselves) and think all parents, especially those who actually espouse religious convictions, are the enemy.)

You see when I was a kid, my sister who is 10 years older, was a world class swimmer. My dad had no sons, but all of his daughters are athletes, as well as other things (I am an artist). He taught me how to throw a ball, how to catch, I grew up with walls covered with old photos, and memorabilia of famous sports. He was personal friends of a guy in the hockey hall of fame, and I painted a picture of him which was on display at his induction. So it revolved around the love of sports. Also, I quickly saw that boys got away with everything while girls were expected to take everything. So Iguess there was a rebelliousness in that I didn't like that double standard and I was not going to accommodate some box that someone else wanted to squeeze me into. I did not play with barbies. I like board games and creative stuff. a challenge. I would pretend I was Get Smart in the backyard for hours and talk to my shoe! LOL Built forts in the woods, etc. But I still knew I was a girl and enjoyed being encouraged to be whatever I wanted to be. My youngest wants to be cop. Fine by me. And my son (who is mildly autistic) would like to be a massage therapist. Why? they make good money and for years he has had a magic touch. He does instinctively what most people have to learn. (have you ever had your hands massaged?)

[Abiding in His Word]

(have you ever had your hands massaged?)

Yes!

Wonderful!

[mightymac]

One more thing, my folks raised me Catholic. From the very beginning, there was always a foundation of right and wrong. I spent many hours either "in the corner" or getting tortured with lectures. I yearned for Jesus. I remember "arguing" with Him because I wanted to grow up to be something famous like an astronaut, but I knew that he gave me a very special talent as an artist. But artists do their thing basically in secret. I'm sure after the first day, anyone would get bored watching even MichalAngelo paint or sculpt. Pride I guess. God won. In fact, my work is kinda secret even now - I design web interfaces. That's pretty behind the scenes. But I still run and lift when I can. I still want to play sports. Not because I'm good, (or not good really) but because it is really fun. I don't see that joy as rebellious ! what some women have missed because someone told them girls can't do that!

[beeps]

When I was at school, ahem back in the day.....boys did wear skirts at school, at playtime (recess to USA) any boys who had kicked or hurt girls would be made to wear a skirt in the play area so everyone could see that they had hurt a girl. The shame of that punishment made sure they did not do it again. That would be termed child abuse now.

[Adamantine]

I do not think any of us know exactly where to draw the lines between freedom and the need to follow something that
helps define feminine and masculine. The Bible however does say not to cross dress and then it does not define what is appropriate for each sex. Seems there must be a lot of latitude. Nevertheless there comes a point at which one has gone too far.
I would suggest men and women are following the appropriate avenue when their is some connection with God given attributes. Example men because of testosterone and bone structure if exercising will be stronger than a women certainly on average. Men should make use of this fact and develop muscle. They may also be very attentive loving dads caring for the babies but then they should accentuate some other masculine trait.
Women are designed to birth and nurse infants and should in general be raised to view that as a good thing. If a women weight lifts to become very strong that is ok but then they should accentuate some other more femine trait. We all love the variety of personhood.
The problem male is the one who is physically weak, dresses in a feminine fashion, chooses all feminine hobbies and also
eschews all "masculine' activites. Somewhere a problem develops. Same for a woman.
maybe others will debate this but it seems like common sense to me.

[wimsmom]

Adamantine!

[GodsStudent]

Women are designed to birth and nurse infants and should in general be raised to view that as a good thing. If a women weight lifts to become very strong that is ok but then they should accentuate some other more femine trait. We all love the variety of personhood.
The problem male is the one who is physically weak, dresses in a feminine fashion, chooses all feminine hobbies and also
eschews all "masculine' activites. Somewhere a problem develops. Same for a woman.
maybe others will debate this but it seems like common sense to me.

Brilliant comments, Adamantine. Brilliant!

[aaron]

Funny how a simple question can start such an interesting discussion! When I initially read the title, I thought 'no' but then thought about Scottish dress, and realized that the dress wasn't the issue, it was whether or not the boy was trying to be a girl by their dress. I'm from the old school camp that believes men should dress and act like men, and women should dress and act like women. My wife wears long skirts and the only people that give her static about that are ladies at church. I think the long dresses are rather attractive on her, I don't mind. My girls want to be like mom so they wear long dresses, and their teachers at church give them static about it. Oh well.

I would suggest men and women are following the appropriate avenue when their is some connection with God given attributes. Example men because of testosterone and bone structure if exercising will be stronger than a women certainly on average. Men should make use of this fact and develop muscle. They may also be very attentive loving dads caring for the babies but then they should accentuate some other masculine trait.

Nice ideas Adamantine. Men get a lot of their ideas about manhood from their father, or a father figure they look up to. My dad is blind, so I didn't get a lot of instruction with power tools, but learned how to wash and wax a car by touch, not sight. Also, I observed how my dad reacted when angry... he would bite his lip and walk away until he cooled off, then would come talk to us calmly. That's something I learned from watching him. And no, he never wore a skirt to school. He did however, wear 'knickers' knee-high type of shorts with buttons on them and long socks. Baseball teams still wear uniforms similar to these. I thought that was funny. I've never worn a dress, never will.

Life is so much easier when men are Godly, strong, dependable, protective, kind, loving, manly
and women are Godly, nurturing, compassionate, feminine, kind, loving, etc.

[Abiding in His Word]

Dress is pretty much defined by culture. The kilt is traditional for the Scots and long robes were traditional for both women and men throughout biblical times. There was enough difference that one could determine one from another, but still had much in common. What is important to God throughout scripture is that women and men not try to look like one another and that their clothing was modest. I doubt He would make an issue about whether a believer's pants zip up the front or on the side providing one isn't wearing them in an effort to pass as the opposite sex. We would certainly think it odd if men were instructed to wear long robes as was the custom long ago. Again, apparel is cultural.

To criticize one another's preferences in dress and/or qualities is fruitless and produces nothing but strife. The world will continue to press the boundaries of acceptable dress, but believers are not in this category.

People aren't defined by their traits and/or characteristics. Women can't be anything other than women and men can't be anything other than men. Some women are very strong courageous (see Jael & Deborah) and some men are very weak and wishy washy (as was Peter many times.) We may have preferences as to the qualities we would like men and women to have, but those that all believers should exhibit are not gender related; joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (Gal. 5). There is a time for everything under the sun and that includes our strengths and weaknesses. There was a time when Jesus exuded strength and times when He displayed compassion and tears.

I believe the qualities and fruit of the Spirit each believer has, has been grown or developed by the Holy Spirit via their life's experiences. If we have been weak, He will put us in situations that enable the growth from weak to strong. If we are impatient and quick to anger, we must learn patiences through a variety of circumstances under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If we are not nurturing, we must learn to be. And so on...until the fruit is fully developed within the lives of all believers regardless of age, gender, or ethnicity.

[Exit40]

They may also be very attentive loving dads caring for the babies but then they should accentuate some other masculine trait.

I have to respectfully disagree with this. It almost states because a man is loving and caring to his children he must now prove his manhood by doing some other kind of manly deed. The reality of it is, to me at least, the most masculine trait of all is the loving, gentle nature we have and show to our children. And not only them, but in our relationships with their siblings and friends we can, and should demonstrate this so our kids can see and feel the power of this. This is a reflection of our Father, our God, and the Love He has for us.

Real men Love Jesus.

God Bless

David

[burien1]

Dress is pretty much defined by culture. The kilt is traditional for the Scots and long robes were traditional for both women and men throughout biblical times. There was enough difference that one could determine one from another, but still had much in common. What is important to God throughout scripture is that women and men not try to look like one another and that their clothing was modest. I doubt He would make an issue about whether a believer's pants zip up the front or on the side providing one isn't wearing them in an effort to pass as the opposite sex. We would certainly think it odd if men were instructed to wear long robes as was the custom long ago. Again, apparel is cultural.

To criticize one another's preferences in dress and/or qualities is fruitless and produces nothing but strife. The world will continue to press the boundaries of acceptable dress, but believers are not in this category.

People aren't defined by their qualities and/or characteristics. Women can't be anything other than women and men can't be anything other than men. Some women are very strong courageous (see Jael & Deborah) and some men are very weak and wishy washy (as was Peter many times.) We may have preferences as to the qualities we would like men and women to have, but those that all believers should exhibit are not gender related; joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (Gal. 5). There is a time for everything under the sun and that includes our strengths and weaknesses. There was a time when Jesus exuded strength and times when He displayed compassion and tears.

I believe the qualities and fruit of the Spirit each believer has, has been grown or developed by the Holy Spirit via their life's experiences. If we have been weak, He will put us in situations that enable the growth from weak to strong. If we are impatient and quick to anger, we must learn patiences through a variety of circumstances under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. If we are not nurturing, we must learn to be. And so on...until the fruit is fully developed within the lives of all believers regardless of age, gender, or ethnicity.

They may also be very attentive loving dads caring for the babies but then they should accentuate some other masculine trait.

I have to respectfully disagree with this. It almost states because a man is loving and caring to his children he must now prove his manhood by doing some other kind of manly deed. The reality of it is, to me at least, the most masculine trait of all is the loving, gentle nature we have and show to our children. And not only them, but in our relationships with their siblings and friends we can, and should demonstrate this so our kids can see and feel the power of this. This is a reflection of our Father, our God, and the Love He has for us.

Real men Love Jesus.

God Bless

David

Such wise answers ! Truly reflecting the fruit of the spirit !