Unreported News, Commentary, Resources and Discussion of Bible Prophecy
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what happened? wrote:Ezekiel's Gog/Magog describes the the last 42 months which culminates in the battle of Armgdn. Israel is at peace prior to the AOD.
I believe Gog/Magog starts out as the "listed" countries but all nations are eventually pulled in together to fight against the LAMB.
Ezekiel 39:21 =>>> And I will set My glory among the nations; and all the nations will see My judgment which I have executed...on them.
All nations are "ALL." No slick interpretations needed here.
You are asuming that these are the same battle.
You are assuming that all the nations who see this judgement repent and come to God.
You are assuming the rebelion ends at gog/magog.
Seeker wrote:Hi bchandler,You are asuming that these are the same battle.
No I am not here it says it right here.
Eze 38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?You are assuming that all the nations who see this judgement repent and come to God.
Nope says it here.
Eze 38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.You are assuming the rebelion ends at gog/magog.
It does Israel returns to God and know that the Lord is their God from that day forward. Show me where Israel knows the Lord is their God from that day forward in scripture. Simple enough to find. Israel does not return to God until after they accept Jesus. No man can come to the Father but through the Son. Jesus is the only way to God and Israel returns to God they have to have accepted Jesus at this point. Show me your scripture placing this event at any other time as I keep asking. You can’t because Israel doesn’t accept Jesus until they see the one they had pierced.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Peace,
Seeker
Douggg wrote:Zechariah 12:10 covers the last 7 years. God pours our his spirit upon all flesh during that time...
Douggg wrote:Seeker, Zechariah 12:10 covers the last 7 years. God pours our his spirit upon all flesh during that time - the spirit of grace and supplications.
prophecyrocks wrote:Douggg wrote:Zechariah 12:10 covers the last 7 years. God pours our his spirit upon all flesh during that time...
I'm sorry, but that's just wrong !!
Zechariah 12:10 does not cover the last 7 year. It covers the time when God supernaturally comes to Israel's rescue...which is during the very end of the 70th Week, or at the very end of the 7 years.
Zech 12:3 "...on that day, when all nations...."
Zech 12:4 "...On that day, I will strike all..."
...then...
Zech 12:10 "I will pour out..."
God pours out His spirit after He recues His people and this occurs during the end of the 70th week !!
You cannot argue that Zechariah 12-14 is not about the end of the 70th week. Even your friend (:mrgreen:) Hal Lindsay will agree with this.
prophecyrocks wrote:Douggg wrote:Seeker, Zechariah 12:10 covers the last 7 years. God pours our his spirit upon all flesh during that time - the spirit of grace and supplications.
Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour out on the HOUSE OF DAVID AND THE INHABITANTS OF JERUSALEM[b] a spirit of grace and supplication."
Sorry...it's only for the Israelites...not all flesh.
With all due respect, do you even read the verses you post ?
Revelation 12:17 says that the Jews are believers in Jesus for that second half of the 70th week.
Douggg wrote:prophecyrocks wrote:Douggg wrote:Seeker, Zechariah 12:10 covers the last 7 years. God pours our his spirit upon all flesh during that time - the spirit of grace and supplications.
Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour out on the HOUSE OF DAVID AND THE INHABITANTS OF JERUSALEM[b] a spirit of grace and supplication."
Sorry...it's only for the Israelites...not all flesh.
With all due respect, do you even read the verses you post ?uh..... I just wish you would read the verses I post. Here it is again...
but bigger just for you....
Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon ALL flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Peace,
Doug L.
bchandler wrote:
It is possible that this prophecy references the time just before and leading up to armageddon... and describes a series of battles leading up to the final deliverance of Jerusalem at Meggido.... but if this is true... it would seem to have nothing to do with the northern battle of Gog/magog... because the conflicts described here seem to start in the south and move north, where as Gog/magog starts in the north on the Golan Heights and never appears to move south..
it appears they are destroyed before they ever really get to make their move against Israel.
Seeker wrote:Show me your scripture placing this event at any other time as I keep asking. You can’t because Israel doesn’t accept Jesus until they see the one they had pierced.
bchandler wrote:I am sorry but the use of past tense in that translation is deceptive.. if you look at the original hebrew... it could just as easily be translated:
...spoil that spoiler and rob that robber....
Seems maybe that extinct volcano won't stay so extinct... this also explains how one battle has large hail and fire and brimstone... and the other only has large hail, and no fire and brimstone is mentioned.
bchandler wrote:But I can not say for sure this is so... it is as much speculation as your speculation of the battles being one and the same. I would need a lot more study time.. and frankly it isn't that important and I need to study more edifying things and earn a living.
bchandler wrote:That's a good point... in fact I have heard it said that if Israel had turned to Jesus in 70 A.D. Christ's return would have been then... but because they didn't their punishment was multiplied.
I forget the exact figures but there is a place in scripture where it tells them exactly how long their judgement would last of they rejected him... and that period essentially came to an end in 1967 when Israel re-took the temple mount... The Israel sinned in their lack of faith an another 14000 days was added just as in the wilderness... which ended on rosh hoshanna 2005...
interesting... if this is true... then this explains the delay in finishing the 70th week, and all we are waiting for is what...??? to finish out the remainder of the 70th week.
hmmm...
You have to admit, this is your assumption.
bchandler wrote:The tensing used here in the hebrew is an untranslated(untranslatable?) direct object particle of speech generally indicating an accusative tense. It is not easily translated into english... hence you have a lot of extra words added here by the translators to try to make this meaning understandable in english.
watch2000 wrote:Ezekiel 39:28 cannot take place till the end of trib, because God pours out his spirit on Israel when christ returns, as in zech 12.
Ezekiel 39
Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. 29 I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD."
ZECH 12
10 " I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication.y will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
watch2000 wrote:Also notice this parallel in EZEK 39 and REVELATION 19,
ezekiel 39
"Son of man, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Call out to every kind of bird and all the wild animals: 'Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrifice I am preparing for you, the great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. There you will eat flesh and drink blood. 18 You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth as if they were rams and lambs, goats and bulls—all of them fattened animals from Bashan. 19 At the sacrifice I am preparing for you, you will eat fat till you are glutted and drink blood till you are drunk. 20 At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, mighty men and soldiers of every kind,' declares the Sovereign LORD.
REV 19
And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great."
19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army.
watch2000 wrote:Also,
EZEK 39
7 " 'I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, the nations will know that I the LORDthe Holy One in Israel. t is coming! It will surely take place, declares the Sovereign LORD. This is the day I have spoken of.
There is only one DAY spoken of by God and that is The Day of the Lord.
Just because all the men shake and fear and tremble doesnt mean they all repent and turn to God...
And God's presence can be felt apart from his person... via the Holy Spirit.
Triton57 wrote:However, if that is right before Christ's return, Israel isn't in Jerusalem
Triton57 wrote:Ezekiel 38,39 speaks to the attackers coming to take spoil from those gathered of all nations into the mountains of Israel (Jerusalem). At Armageddon, the armies are fighting Christ.
prophecyrocks wrote:Seeker wrote:Show me your scripture placing this event at any other time as I keep asking. You can’t because Israel doesn’t accept Jesus until they see the one they had pierced.
Ditto. I'm waiting for those scriptures as well.
Seeker wrote:Hi prophecyrocks,
Yeah they can't get around these two.
Eze 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Peace,
Seeker
Douggg wrote:I don't think that is necessary, because since the Jews are Christians for that second 3 1/2 years.
prophecyrocks wrote:Doug, so you just completely ignored all my replies to you earlier ?
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon ALL flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Acts = spirit of prophecy + all flesh
Zechariah 12:10 "...Spirit of grace and supplication" and only for Israel (not all flesh).
Zech 13:4 "On that day every prophet will be ashamed of his prophetic vision."
Is the spirit mentioned in Acts the same as the spirit mentioned in Zechariah ?
Israel is going to be protected in the wilderness being refined through fire when Christ returns in glory to take the kingdoms. The Gog/Magog invaders are coming upon Jerusalem when they're wiped out in the mountains of Israel. However, if that is right before Christ's return, Israel isn't in Jerusalem because at the abomination of desolation, 2/3 of Israel were killed and the 1/3 remnant were taken to the wilderness for 3 1/2 years. That's where they'll be when Christ returns, not at Jerusalem.
Douggg wrote:
...there will also be the true prophets in Zechariah 13:4....
.....in Zechariah 13:4 those who are given the Spirit of prophesy will be true to God's word, just like Jeremiah was. I don't think they will enjoy making those prophesies...they will be ashamed to have to make them... because like in Jeremiah's day, it won't be a rosey picture for that 3 1/2 year period that they will have to prophesy about.
Zechariah 12:10 covers the last 7 years. God pours out his spirit upon all flesh during that time - the spirit of grace and supplications.
prophecyrocks wrote:
Here's a quick chronology of the events:
1.) "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle..."
2.) "Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle."
3.) "In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem"
4.) "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn."
5.) "And it shall be in that day, [that] living waters shall go out from Jerusalem"
6.) And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
The spirit (the one mentioned in the zech) that's being poured out, occurs after God comes to their rescue...and this occurs at the latter part of the 70th week. So once again, Israel doesn't come back to the Lord until near the end. Not prior to or in the middle of the 70th week.
Hi Doug, This is how it happens. I tire of repeating myself so will let God explain it.
BeTheMoon wrote:bchandler wrote:Because Israel failed to take by faith what God had miraculously given them in 1967 (Jerusalem and the Temple mount) there was another 14000 day judgement period which brings us to Rosh Hashana (September 2005).
I just re-read this (very intriguing--sp?). If this is correct, then the return IS closer than we think! 3.5 years after 09/05 would be around Spring 2008.
1whowaits wrote:Perhaps the passage that might apply is Ezekiel 4, which gives a specific period of time for the 'seige of Jerusalem'. God stated in Ezek. 4 that the period of the seige due to the sins of Israel, the northern kingdom, would be 390 days representing 390 years. The period of punishment for the northern kingdom began with the seige of Samaria, roughly in 723-724 BC. (2 Kings 17:9)
After the period of 390 years, the northern kingdom did not return to the Lord, so it would appear that the passage in Lev. 26 would apply- 'if after all these things you do not listen to me, I will chastise you seven times more for your sin'.
The math could be as follows- 390 x 7 = 2,730 yrs x 360 days (hebrew calendar) =982,800 days -:- 365.25 days (current calendar) =2,690.7 years of punishment
2,690.7 years -723 (BC) =1967.7
And in fact the seige of Jerusalem for the northern kingdom and the nation Israel did end in june of 1967.
But God also stated that there was a further seige of Jerusalem for the southern kingdom, Judah , for 40 years, which was described after the seige of Jerusaem for the northern kingdom.
While the northern kingdom consisted of the 10 tribes, the southern kingdom consisted of the tribe of Judah, the tribe of David the king, the tirbe of Benjamin, and the Levites, the priests. The implication could be that the seige of Jerusalem would continue for the ruling tribe and the priests, which has in fact been the case for the last 40 years.
Because of the Islamic control of the temple mount Israel, altough she may have the legal right and military might to do so, Judah has not ruled over that area for the past 40 years. And because of the Islamic control of the temple mount the tribe of the priests, the Levites, have not had access to the area most precious to them.
The seige of Jerusalem for the southern kingdom has continued beyond the recapture of Jerusalem in 1967 until the present day. If Ezek. 4 is describing the current 'seige of Jerusalem' that seige should end this year, in June 2007, when the 40 years will be completed.
If this is the case, will Israel return to the Lord this year or will the time of seige be multiplied times seven as it was for the northern kingdom?
And what event might bring such a return of Israel to the Lord? What event would allow the Israeli people to reassert their authority over the temple mount, and perhaps even rebuild the temple?
Douggg wrote:Brother Triton, there are some problems with the chart.
Point 1.
You show the Great Tribulation only 30 days long.... and only for Israel.
Jesus said the Great Tribulation tests everyone alive..... not just Israel.
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come * upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
You reference Matthew Matt24:15-22, but in those verses....Jesus said...
24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Douggg wrote:Point 2
You show the 1290 days ending precisely at the end of the 2520 days of the 7 years. It should be the 1335th day.... when Jesus returns to rescue the Jews, ending their ordeal and the seven years.
You show no time for the world's armies to assemble at Armageddon, i.e. the 1290 days from the 1335 day = 45 days.
Douggg wrote:Point 3
You show no Gog/Magog event
Douggg wrote:Point 4
You show the marriage supper of the Lamb occuring 45 days after the 70 weeks. The marriage supper of the Lamb is completed when Jesus destroys the armies of the world, the Antichrist, and the false prophet ending the tribulation period.
19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Douggg wrote:Point 5
The Jews become Christians at the exact midpoint because 2520 days - 1260 days of Rev 12:6 = 1260 days.
But the time that they are protected from Satan - which you show as the 1260 days is wrong... because Revelation 12:14 says....
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
because it is something slightly different than 1260 days.....LESS THAN the 1260 days.... as Satan is booted down to earth after the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6.
Sometime just past the midpoint...Satan enters the AOD that the false prophet has had the world make and setup to be worshipped at
at 2520 days (the 7 years) - 1335 days = 1185 days from the confirming of the covenant. Put a line showing the AOD setup to be worshipped 1185 days from the start...then another line from that point showing the 1290 days...then another line from that point. ..45 days long for the assembly of the armies at armageddon... to the exact end of the 7 years... and you would have it right...Try it and see what it looks like.
Douggg wrote:I don't have a problem with your 42 month timeframe with the reing of the beast to the end of the 7 years. The AOD, however, is made (1260-1185) 75 days prior to the exact mid-point. Whether that is done after the Antichrist is killed, I don't know. It could be that the Antichrist goes into the temple, declares himself to be god, revealing himself to be the Man of Sin, (the beast is his designation after he ascends from the bottomless pit) before the midpoint, and also the false prophet has the image made.... just like Antiochus Ephinanes haf the statue put into the temple of Zeus, who Antiochus claimed that he himself was the incarnation of in the flesh. And in a possible scenario when the Antichrist goes into the temple prior to the exact mid-point..... someone kills him.
Triton57 wrote:Douggg wrote:Point 4
You show the marriage supper of the Lamb occuring 45 days after the 70 weeks. The marriage supper of the Lamb is completed when Jesus destroys the armies of the world, the Antichrist, and the false prophet ending the tribulation period.
19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
How does the feeding of birds with the dead flesh of the Armageddon armies equate to the marriage of Christ and the church? Can you honestly say that the supper of the great God for the birds is the same event as the marriage supper of the Lamb?
Triton57 wrote:Douggg wrote:Point 2
You show the 1290 days ending precisely at the end of the 2520 days of the 7 years. It should be the 1335th day.... when Jesus returns to rescue the Jews, ending their ordeal and the seven years.
You show no time for the world's armies to assemble at Armageddon, i.e. the 1290 days from the 1335 day = 45 days.
I have a different take on the 1335 days. The context of Daniel 12:11 is within the 70th week of Daniel, 1290 days from the abomination of desolation. Then there's an additional 45 days from that point ending at the 1335 day mark. What could be taking place 45 days into the millennial reign of Christ that would bless those who come to it?Revelation 19:7-9
The marriage of the Lamb and marriage supper of the Lamb are two different events. The marriage of the Lamb happens in heaven before Christ returns in glory. (This also demonstrates that the bride, in order to attend, must be caught up to heaven before Christ returns in glory.)
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
The marriage supper of the Lamb is like the reception. If you look at the ancient Jewish wedding customs, the marriage supper was when the groom presented his wife to the guests for the first time unvieled. I believe the marriage supper of the Lamb will take place on the earth during the millennium and Christ will present His bride.
Douggg wrote:Point 6
The scale at the bottom of the chart showing Oct 5, 2005 starting the 70th week is ....because you have no Gog/Magog event having occured.
The Gog/Magog event will precede the 70th week.... the 7 years of burning the remains of battle for fuel is the 70th week.
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