Oprah reveals "The Secret" to life on her show

[bwd8908]

This law cannot be applied across the board for all, and so it is not true, or valid.

We might be able to attract things, whether they are good or bad. Yes, even evil people may be able to use "The Secret" to get what they want.

Christ should be the first love of the church. We say seek ye first the kingdom of God, and those things will be multiplied unto you. So, people who put God first tend to be annointed. We want Him, and we get more of Him. Those of us who sincerely want to know where we belong may be blessed in their trade, in their home, or with a particular form of abundance, which exists in the material world, in as much as it suits the Great Commission (to spread the Word).

They say, seek ye first materiality, and those things will be multiplied unto you. I read that the love of money is the root of all evil, but not that it garuntees the poverty of the greedy. Won't the love of drinking predispose you to drunkenness? An adulterous heart could bring adultry into your life.

Some missionaries testify that cleansing the land of idolatry made polluted waters literally run clear. The earth may grow new fruit. Is it possible that the opposite may predispose the land to sin? Due to spiritual causes, of which they are completely unaware, other people may stumble over your transgression, and the Devil gives you what you want, in furtherance of his own great commission.

We say that things have a seed and a root, which is not prone to natural law, but exists in the spiritual world. It seems to me that the difference with them is that they don't differentiate between a good seed and a bad seed.

Without the grace of God, I think these people are particulalry difficult to reach, because all of this magnetism and attraction stuff is how an occultist defines love. Sin, to them, is when you interfere with another person's witchcraft. To them, you're limiting their freedom of choice. So, we are called "haters" in a real life La Haye movie.

[ruotsher]

I am currently witnessing via electronically, to a New Ager right now.....she is HEAVY into it ........

Everything she says is reflected in the above posts. I have been prepared, so far.... but knowing this is a spritual war going on.........need to keep being prepared. In the Holy Spirit.....and just knowing what is happening out there.....


If anybody has experience in this area, please share.........

[AndCanItBe]

I don't have "experience" but I have had an experience, if you know what I mean. Be very careful with these people. About ten years ago I worked for a large company and was going through a training that lasted for about two weeks. One of our instructors was a New Ager along these lines. She talked about how she just "decided" she was going to meet the love of her life and so she did, but of course they weren't married or anything. She would start the class off with meditation every day. I would sit there and pray and pray and pray. The evil was so thick in the room, it still gives me shivers. She knew I was a Christian and there was a guy in there I had been witnessing to and he pulls her over one day to ask her opinion on something we were discussing about sin. She says real smooth and silky "I don't believe you're a sinner ACIB, you're a good person I can tell. You don't need saved from anyone." I thought "This is the voice Eve heard in the garden!!! I could see the evil in her eyes. If you've ever had something like this happen to you, I know you know what I mean. It still gives me the shivers!

My point is just that some of these people are truly demon posessed so watch your step and be on your guard.

[bwd8908]

If anybody has experience in this area, please share.........

I know a ton of their procedures, techniques, terminology, culture, but only God can make an opening. They believe what they know covers all the bases, until a quickening in their heart makes them feel dissatisfied spiritually.

Theosophy and OTO literature conveniently tie most unBiblical movements to Satanism by name. This can be socially repugnant enough to counter a point against world peace, but it could also be taken as personal attack by someone who's not ready to hear it, yet.

You can't make them ready, but you can pray that they will be. You can pray to be useful when a person is ready to repent.

We talk about a presense of evil, but they're not used to the Holy Spirit. Until they make that crossover, they may feel as weird around you as you do around them.

[ruotsher]

yes, here is a bit from our conversation.......

Me - "The most loving act of eternity is described in Romans 5:8, “But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” It’s not about Jesus wanting peace and not war……it’s about none of us can ever enter the presence of God, (Heaven) with sin…….and none of us has a way of getting rid of that sin. So Jesus, the Son of God, took ALL that sin…..in His suffering and death on our behalf…..paid our debt for us….so that we CAN enter God’s presence after we die."

Her: Umm...you were just saying that God is Love. That doesn't sound like love. You have to understand LOVE to see the lies in the bible.
It saddens me that people would think SO low of Heaven and of God. That is something satan would do, Ruo.
I can't go into it, because it punches a tender spot.

Me: "Anyone who ignores God’s love, who rejects Christ as the Savior, who denies the Savior who bought him with His blood (2 Peter 2:1) that person WILL be subject to God’s wrath for eternity (Romans 1:18), not His love (Romans 6:23). God loves everyone unconditionally in that He shows mercy to everyone. God conditionally loves only those who place their faith in His Son for salvation (John 3:36). Only those who believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior will experience God’s love for eternity."


Her: That is NOT uncondtional love, Ruo. Can't you SEE that!? How can you peg such...such COLDNESS to God!? How can you believe him capable of such sickness!?
UNCONDITIONAL is the keyword, Ruo!!!!!!

yeah........

I told her that was a lie straight from satan himself...........

[bwd8908]

The person is willing to talk, and that's good. She doesn't want to feel tied down. Instead, you could approach this as an issue of free choice.

Hell (unacceptance) was not made for us.

It was man who ruined the world. (plays on environmentalist ideals.)

We were offered a plan to fix it, at a great cost to the Maker.

And, He covered all the cost for what we ruined, because that's what kind of guy he is.

If you'd like to accept the gift of his deliverance, he's not about slavery and damnation.

[wannabereal]

hey Ruo....
you might want to direct her to check out www.wayofthemaster.com which might help her see her error....

[ruotsher]

Thanks!! I am open for all suggestions. This is still ongoing.........I will know when it is time to drop it and leave it to the Holy Spirit, but right now I feel I am being led.......

[Blessings2U]

wannabereal wrote:

hey guys....there was a really good video about the "new age" and its influences someone had posted once....can't remember the name and wanted to go back and watch the whole thing....anybody remember that??
and where might it be?? (either youtube or google i think...)

I know which one you are talking about, but I don't know how to search properly, i guess. I watched it and was surprised that the news guy doing the story is now a host on QVC!!! I emailed him a link of it and he got a kick out of it. He agreed that the new age stuff has been around a long time and is really becoming popular. I was glad to find out he is a Christian!

Can someone who is more computer savvy help us find this news article?

Thanks!

[kazbo]

God does love us all unconditionally. His love for us is not dependent on what we do, say, or think.

I don't see how you can say he "paid our debt for us" and she can reply "That doesn't sound like love." Sounds like love to me.

I think I understand where she's coming from - it's this Love is all and in all and is the answer to everything. But it's a feel-good, wimpy, passive love - everything's okay with everyone and can't we all just get along? It's an immature love.

God is love, and God is just. His justice requires a payment, and his love provided the payment, seeing that we had no way of paying it ourselves. Justice without love and mercy would have been obliterating us.

You can debate the nature of love a long time, but it's not the main issue. At the root of it all is believing there's a problem (sin), seeing that it applies to you personally, and looking for the solution (a Savior). Is there a way you can bring your conversations around to that root somehow?

I know I haven't been much help here God bless you as you talk with her.

[Mttw633]

I just saw coming up on Oprah on Friday that due to an overwhelming response she's doing a follow up show to the secret.

[Wickus]

New Agers focus so much on God's love that they forget that He is righteous and just as well.

If a murderer stands in front of an earthly judge in a court of law and the murderer begs the judge for mercy, will the judge let him of the hook? NO! If he does, that will be unjust. How much will a Holy God not let the sinner of the hook. That is why Jesus sacrificed Himself for sinners so that the righteousness of God could be satisfied.

I think sometimes us Christians over emphasis the love of God and forget that He is holy, righteous and just as well. Could it not be that we are feeding the New Age fire? Lets tell them the whole truth.

[D4Christ]

New Agers focus so much on God's love that they forget that He is righteous and just as well.

If a murderer stands in front of an earthly judge in a court of law and the murderer begs the judge for mercy, will the judge let him of the hook? NO! If he does, that will be unjust. How much will a Holy God not let the sinner of the hook. That is why Jesus sacrificed Himself for sinners so that the righteousness of God could be satisfied.

I think sometimes us Christians over emphasis the love of God and forget that He is holy, righteous and just as well. Could it not be that we are feeding the New Age fire? Lets tell them the whole truth.

Unfortunately, new agers have chosen not to hear the Truth because the godly love they focus on is their own...they are gods. Just because they borrow the language of Christianity let us not get it twisted. Satan is a deceiver, liar and immitator and he knows the best way to fool folks is to wrap his lies in the likeness of what Christ taught but without the truth.

New agers focus on love because in their mind there is no wrong. They believe they are Divine and have the same power of "Christ" that was in Jesus. They believe they are co-creators with the great god-spirit of the universe and as long as they "vibrate" on the same energy wavelength any thing or condition they think of will become a reality.

In fact, the only thing holding back the evolution of the entire race from recognizing their "Christ" potential are those of us who believe that we are not gods, and that we have been separated from G-d through our sinful nature.

But the new agers have a simple solution for those of us who will not accept our divinity. It is a well-documented "Selection Process." They believe that "god" revealed to them that those who will not accept their dvinity will not be "raptured" into a higher form and will have to be killed like cancer. The god of the universe will not allow those who cling to old, traditional beliefs to hold back the evolution of mankind. So we will be killed and will not be given new bodies until we let go of our "self-centeredness."

Babara Marx Hubbard in her 1993 book titled, "The Revelation: A Message of Hope for the New Millenium" openly speaks about The Selection Process (excerpt below). If you want to know the reasoning behind the AC's assault on Christians during the Great Tribulation, read the excerpts about what "god" supposedly told Barbara about those who refuse to call themselves gods.

Here is an excert from the research of Warren Smith, author of the online book, "Reinventing Jesus.":

No worldly peace can prevail until the self-centered members of the planetary body either change, or die. That is the choice. The red horse is the destruction during the birth process of those who refuse to be born into God-centered, universal life. They cannot go backward to the womb; they cannot go forward to the new heavens and new earth. They must surely die, or change.

It is a free choice. Evolution is good but it is not nice. Only the good can evolve. Only the God-centered will survive to inherit the powers of a universal species. Evolution empowers the horseman upon the red horse to kill that which cannot love God above all else and his neighbor as himself and himself as the son of God.

This act is as horrible as killing a cancer cell. It must be done for the sake of the future of the whole. So be it; be prepared for the selection process which is now beginning.

So you see, the new agers know exactly what they want...to get rid of us! I think we know should be aware of our enemies tactics. He surely knows ours.

[ruotsher]

actually, that's exactly what she's saying.....she refers to God as her Father.......and only a loving Father.......she says to believe that He is a judging God is cold....and she can't believe He would ever judge or show wrath........(selective Bible reading). She says she looks at him as child, through child's eyes, and daddy would never ever hurt one of his children, We are his children, we just need to open ourselves up to him.

Oh, and the reason for selective bible reading is that she believes it is so tainted by human hands, and so distorted in human interpretation, that she believes the bible we have today is full of lies and deceipt - caused by satan himself.

[Wickus]

Back in the 20th century before Jesus saved me, I was also caught in that lies. "Father God will not hurt me, condemn me, punish me forever. He is love." What they don't see is that we are His creation, not His children. Not even sinless angels are His children. We are only children trough our Savior Jesus.
I just praise the Lord that He revealed Himself fully to me.

[bwd8908]

Back in the 20th century before Jesus saved me, I was also caught in that lies. "Father God will not hurt me, condemn me, punish me forever.He is love."
I just praise the Lord that He revealed Himself fully to me.

To me, some choose a punishment which was not created for them.

Since we're talking about how to get through to New Agers, can you tell us what got through to you?

[D4Christ]

I just saw coming up on Oprah on Friday that due to an overwhelming response she's doing a follow up show to the secret.

This is so sad. You can be sure that many "christians" will be tuned in to her out of their lust for more money and the financial blessings they want to get from G-d. It is a shame. Having money is not a bad thing but our focus on it as Christians is causing many to fall prey to the deception of the New Age (aka New Thought) plan.

The prosperity message so popular today is killing us spritually and soon physically (during the GT).

[Wickus]

Since we're talking about how to get through to New Agers, can you tell us what got through to you?

God revealed Himself to me trough a secular book about astronomy. I read about the vast universe and the wonders of it and God revealed to me that He is greater than His creation. I asked Him to proof it to me trough Scripture. I grabbed the closest Bible I could get, opened it, and He gave me this:

Psa 91:14-16 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. He shall call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble: I will deliver him, and honor him. With long life will I satisfy him, And show him my salvation.

That was a living word to me 11 years ago. I guess God knew that I would love Him :-) 'Till this day I have never looked back. I guess it is not really an answer to give to New Agers, but that is my salvation story.

[WhiteH2OWoman]

Bless you, Ruotsher, for what you are doing! We used to live in Austin, Texas, which is a new age hotbed.

I do have a few suggestions, after reading Constance Cumbey's excellent book, "The Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow."

1. Point out that New Age is really not new...two of the major principles are actually the same lies the serpent told Eve in the Garden. One lie was "Ye shall surely not die" if they ate the apple. The New Age lie is reincarnation. Second one was "Ye shall be as gods". The New Age teaches that everyone can achieve god status, or that they have god within themselves.

actually, that's exactly what she's saying.....she refers to God as her Father.......and only a loving Father.......she says to believe that He is a judging God is cold....and she can't believe He would ever judge or show wrath........(selective Bible reading). She says she looks at him as child, through child's eyes, and daddy would never ever hurt one of his children, We are his children, we just need to open ourselves up to him.

Ask her how much respect she would have for a loving father who did not discipline his kids at all...lets 'em run all over McDonalds, buy liquor with fake ID's, crash the car, steal...would she respect a father who did not enforce any rules with discipline?

Or...what would she think of a judge who lets everybody off just because he doesn't want to be mean? What kind of judge would that be?

Then draw the connection that God is our heavenly Father.

You might also mention that the idea of God as pure love makes it sound like He just has one emotion...and I don't know of any HUMANS who are that one-dimensional, do you? God is far more complex than us, and we have hundreds of emotions. So, yes, God gets angry, and righteously so.

Oh, and the reason for selective bible reading is that she believes it is so tainted by human hands, and so distorted in human interpretation, that she believes the bible we have today is full of lies and deceipt - caused by satan himself.

Well that's CONVENIENT! Try to gently point out that using that logic allows her to dismiss it out of hand. Don't let her off the hook on that one. Tell her that God was with those who translated it.

And if she believe in Satan...tell her he's the father of lies and there is no truth in him and she cannot trust him.

I sure hope this helps!

[WhiteH2OWoman]

Bless you, Ruotsher, for what you are doing! We used to live in Austin, Texas, which is a new age hotbed.

I do have a few suggestions, after reading Constance Cumbey's excellent book, "The Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow."

1. Point out that New Age is really not new...two of the major principles are actually the same lies the serpent told Eve in the Garden. One lie was "Ye shall surely not die" if they ate the apple. The New Age lie is reincarnation. Second one was "Ye shall be as gods". The New Age teaches that everyone can achieve god status, or that they have god within themselves.

Then ask her, "Doesn't it kind of make you mad, or insult you, that Satan thinks you'll fall for the same old lies he's used for 6,000 years?"

actually, that's exactly what she's saying.....she refers to God as her Father.......and only a loving Father.......she says to believe that He is a judging God is cold....and she can't believe He would ever judge or show wrath........(selective Bible reading). She says she looks at him as child, through child's eyes, and daddy would never ever hurt one of his children, We are his children, we just need to open ourselves up to him.

Ask her how much respect she would have for a loving father who did not discipline his kids at all...lets 'em run all over McDonalds, buy liquor with fake ID's, crash the car, steal...would she respect a father who did not enforce any rules with discipline?

Or...what would she think of a judge who lets everybody off just because he doesn't want to be mean? What kind of judge would that be?

Then draw the connection that God is our heavenly Father.

You might also mention that the idea of God as pure love makes it sound like He just has one emotion...and I don't know of any HUMANS who are that one-dimensional, do you? God is far more complex than us, and we have hundreds of emotions. So, yes, God gets angry, and righteously so.

Oh, and the reason for selective bible reading is that she believes it is so tainted by human hands, and so distorted in human interpretation, that she believes the bible we have today is full of lies and deceipt - caused by satan himself.

Well that's CONVENIENT! Try to gently point out that using that logic allows her to dismiss it out of hand. Don't let her off the hook on that one. Tell her that God was with those who translated it.

Even the demons BELIEVE that God exist (as the Bible says.) She needs to believe GOD and trust him...and read His Word.

And if she believes in Satan...tell her he's the father of lies and there is no truth in him and she cannot trust him.

I sure hope this helps!

[soundingthealarm]

This is so sad. You can be sure that many "christians" will be tuned in to her out of their lust for more money and the financial blessings they want to get from G-d. It is a shame. Having money is not a bad thing but our focus on it as Christians is causing many to fall prey to the deception of the New Age (aka New Thought) plan.

The prosperity message so popular today is killing us spritually and soon physically (during the GT).

You are right D4Christ. I have seen Creflo Dollar and other pastors telling their congregation how to activate G-d into action so they can get all that they want. It is sad because they are setting up their congregation to receive what these New Agers have to deliver to them---a one way ticket to hell.

[sparkly]

Just checking in...too tired to think. ChurchGirl, I'll pray for your dad. My father's name is Bill.

And they just moved to a friends...farm...just outside Austin. He and my step-mom and their various children lived in a commune in the seventies/eighties, and I just get the feeling that he is into some thing like that there in TX. I know they have hooked up with some of the people from the commune. They moved there in a new travel trailer, after selling their beautiful victorian in WA...that my stepmom had to have, like 4 years ago.

I've got to email him...waiting and praying for wisdom. And yes, I am stalling! But I will let him know what I think. I'll check in tomorrow and read all the replies when my eyes aren't so blurry...

[Passion]

Just checking in...too tired to think. ChurchGirl, I'll pray for your dad. My father's name is Bill.

And they just moved to a friends...farm...just outside Austin. He and my step-mom and their various children lived in a commune in the seventies/eighties, and I just get the feeling that he is into some thing like that there in TX. I know they have hooked up with some of the people from the commune. They moved there in a new travel trailer, after selling their beautiful victorian in WA...that my stepmom had to have, like 4 years ago.

I've got to email him...waiting and praying for wisdom. And yes, I am stalling! But I will let him know what I think. I'll check in tomorrow and read all the replies when my eyes aren't so blurry...

Hmmm.....a "beautiful Victorian in WA....." Let me guess--Port Townsend, right?

, for your Dad and family!

[Passion]

Ruotsher, God is really using you!

This morning during my prayer/Bible reading time I was praying for His guidance for you, and conviction and a softening heart for your online friend. I had been reading your posts concerning your conversation with her last night, and how you had asked for feedback re. some things you could say to her, so this morning I was wondering if there was anything I could add. Then the thought came to me of Jesus as a philosopher (don't panic yet at that!), and the verse "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends."John 15:13

As for the "Jesus as philosopher" I am not, by any means, trying to imply that He was merely a "great philosopher", as so many New Agers say. but it would be fair to say that as God/man, He was a great philosopher, in addition to everything else He did perfectly--the greatest that's ever lived or ever will live. I guess what I'm trying to say here (albeit not very well! ) is perhaps you could start from where she's at, with something she can understand and relate to, but without, of course, watering down the Gospel. Sort of like Paul did in his famous Mars Hill sermon when he started off by discussing their "unknown god". He didn't water down the Gospel one bit, but he did begin at a point that his listeners could understand and relate to.

That said, maybe you could try a bit different tack, and start by asking her something along the lines of who she thinks Jesus is (or, in her opinion, it may be "was"). Likely she'll give you the "great philosopher" bit, "very, very, wise man", etc., but if she doesn't, you can always ask her point-blank if she thinks He was some "great philosopher". Then you could progress along the lines of the extremely high intelligence of and wisdom of someone of this caliber. You could discuss some of His sayings that she's likely to identify with--in particular, the ones having to do with love, and treating others as you would want to be treated, etc. You might point out His two commandments He gave, both concerning love, and how all the commandments are fulfilled in these two. Then you could toss in the above quote from John 15 and see if she agrees with it (how could she not? But you never know!:dunno: ). Then you could return to the earlier point you mentioned having made, that God so loved the world (emphasize this, btw...the world, not some, not a few, not most, but the world--because most of these people just love all-inclusiveness, and think that Christians are big meanies who exclude everyone else), that He gave His only Son. That God Himself loved each and every one of us so much He stepped out of heaven and into the weak, fallible body of a human, in an incredibly tough, primitive time, in a filthy, evil world, and all the hardships that go along with that--in order to save our lives for eternity, by giving up His own.

No greater love, indeed. Thank You, Jesus.

Hope this helps some.

P.S. BTW, I didn't mean to imply that, if you think any of these ideas worth trying, you don't try the other ideas that were posted earlier. I was reading through them and they are all great--they must've all come from the prompting of the Holy Spirit! Speaking strictly for myself, I would'nt hesitate to use all of them!

[Wickus]

http://www.fromthelighthouse.com/blog/?cat=16

The Secret Author Influenced by Spirit Guides!

Source: Lighthouse Trails

While most people may view the new DVD promoted by Oprah as a safe and effective method to reach their goals and aspirations, what they do not know may hurt them tremendously. Rhonda Byrne, the author of The Secret, is greatly influenced by a couple named Jerry and Esther Hicks. In the Acknowledgements of The Secret, Byrne thanked Jerry and Esther Hicks and the teachings of Abraham. Abraham is a group of spirit guides that the Hicks look to for guidance. On their website, they state:
Abraham, a group of obviously evolved teachers, speak their broader Non-physical perspective through the physical body of Esther [Hicks]. Speaking to our level of comprehension, from their present moment to our now, through a series of loving, allowing, brilliant yet comprehensively simple, recordings in print, in video, and in sound - they guide us to a clear connection with our Inner Being--they guide us to self-upliftment from our total self.
Because Oprah (who is perhaps the most influential person in this country right now)is giving The Secret a huge thumbs up, this could potentially accelerate the paradigm shift we are going through which is racing the world into such deception as never seen before and what the Bible predicts will take place before Jesus Christ returns. And with contemplative spirituality (just another form of the same spirituality being promoted through The Secret) now being embraced by so much of Christendom, the words of Alice Bailey may indeed come true, when she said that the Age of Aquarius (that time when humanity realizes its divinity) will come not around the Christian church, but rather through it.

Tomorrow, when millions of viewers are watching Oprah and more of The Secret, may God open the eyes of many to see what this film really is all about. And we pray that Christian leaders who have succumbed to contemlative spirituality will repent and turn back to the pure gospel of Jesus Christ, and may they speak publicly about their repentance and quickly warn believers to also turn back.

For additional information:
Take a look at the book that influenced The Secret, The Law of Attraction by Jerry and Esther Hicks. The foreword is written by staunch New Ager Neale Donald Walsch.

[Ibelieve]

bless you ruo for your witness for the Lord!
this is definitely an old tactic reused. not only does it remind me of the serpent in the Garden of Eden. I constantly think back to the Tower of Babel..... sounds just like that too.... especially the thoughts of becoming powerful with oneness of thought....

Gen 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing, will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

I also had the thought of posting the questions H20 posted about a father not disciplining. It is a childs choice to disobey & what kind of Father would not straighten the child he loves out with discipline.....letting him just continue on the destructive path. I used this once on a secular friend & he could come up with no argument back.... but I don't think this would get through to the New Ager since, they do not believe Love corrects.... & it seems they question right & wrong being reality. So that would negate this argument as well.

the part about the Red Horse in Rev being real Christians needing killed because we are blocking the process..... I new it was coming but I never expected that tactic.
now more than ever we need the armor & wisdom of our Lord.


Wickus, God used his creations in the Heavens to call me back too. It's really awesome out there!!!!!

[sparkly]

"Abraham" is a spirit guide/demon. My father sent me some teachings of "his" a couple years ago. Didn't have the stomach to read and refute them at the time...they are now in a landfill somewhere...


I just went to Amazon.com..."the secret" is in the top three books, and top three movies...

[sparkly]

Okay, here is my rough draft.

Hi there, how are you and ---- doing?

We are all fine here. Thank you for sending ---- the birthday money, he had fun shopping at Target, and picked out a couple "pop up play sets" for his cars. He's played with them quite a bit too.

I have watched about half of the dvd. The part about being positive is good.

There are a couple of areas that concern me, although again, I haven't watched the whole thing yet. One is, can one always be led by feelings? The other is, what if we what we want is not good for us?

Many people on the dvd said they asked for things...things that made them happy, or feel good. Couldn't put my finger on it right away, but after some thought realized I was concerned that no one mentioned if they should have that thing that they wanted and were asking the universe for...that thing or person that thinking of made them feel happy or good. And that is troubling to me. Because some things that make a person happy, or feel good. are not what is best for them. Or perhaps the acquiring of that object, or experience or person, is at the cost of someone else?

These are perhaps extreme examples...but what about the child molester, who wants more victims. Or the person lusting after his neighbor's wife. Having these people may make them feel good, but it is at the expense of another, and that is not right.

I am a firm believer in right and wrong. Some things may feel good, for the moment, but are not right. Drugs or alcohol may give a feeling of euphoria, but in the end only destroy...Adultery may be exciting, and make a person feel wanted, but it is hurting another person, and is wrong.

It's not ok, to get what we want, at the expense of someone else...

When Jesus taught, He said that the 10 commandments were summed up in these two- that we love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind and strength, and that we love others as we love ourself. It was not a cop- out, did not lessen the 10 commandments in any way, but got right to the heart of the matter...if we love God the most, we will want to please Him. And if we love others as we love ourselves, we will not steal from them, or lie to them, or covet what is theirs, etc.

Does the "Law of Attraction", take into account other people, whose wants desires and even well being, are at odds with what the asker is seeking?

We've talked about the importance of feelings, before, and just have to say, that it's been my experience, that feelings are not always to be trusted. The daily news is full of people who have given in to their feelings. They've killed spouses out of jealousy, abused children out of anger, stolen from greed. They have hurt people...because of their feelings. Those are all negative feelings, true. But good feelings can be fleeting, or based on things that don't last, or are not even true.

A brand new Dodge Durango would make me happy (for a while), but I'm going to go against my feeling of wanting it, because it would not be right for me, for our family, to go into debt and pay 600+ dollars a month for it. I just can't justify it. And if I did go ahead and get that Durango, and it made me happy, what would happen when it got dented? Or stolen, or destroyed? When one of the kids threw up in the backseat...
Where does that happiness of having a new Durango, go? How sad and disappointed I would be, if my happiness was based on something that I could lose...

There's a difference between, happiness and joy. Happiness depends on circumstances, but joy is a state of being. I may be happy or sad, depending on the moment and events, but I always have joy, everyday, because Jesus is my Saviour. I have joy, because of the promises of God. And God always keeps his promises. He is all-knowing, ever present, and all powerful. He never lets me down. He is loving, and merciful and forgiving, and yet, He is just.

The Bible says not to worry about what the future brings, but to seek first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness. And that all the things we need will be added unto us. It also says, to ask for things, according to His will, and with praise and thanksgiving. According to His will means that we are not going to ask for things we know He wouldn't want.

A long time ago, you learned about God. A lifetime ago, you went to seminary to study about Him. I know that you have read many scriptures, and written papers about who He is and what He has done. If you didn't find all you wanted to, in all those years of study, what was it you were looking for, or what was it that you found that you didn't want to know? You don't have to tell me what that was...I only ask you because at some point, something made you turn away from Jesus, and seek other answers. Do you remember the passage where Jesus says, "I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father but by Me"?

Why oh why go to any other source?

All that Bible study years ago is not wasted...God's word will not return to him void. The Holy Spirit can call to your mind, verses that you read 40 years ago. Verses that He wants you to remember, for His purpose.

A long time ago, we decided that we wouldn't discuss "religion", because it was clear we had very strong, and opposing beliefs. And for years, I have respected that. I am saying all these things to you now, because you sent us that dvd and asked what I thought of it. So that is where I am coming from here. I love you, I am your daughter. That is not going to change. But I am also a follower of Jesus Christ, and...He means so much to me, is such a part of me...He cannot be separated from who I am.

I hope to hear back from you soon. Know that I am praying for you. For ---- and all the kids too.

Love, Stephanie

I am just spent...

[AndCanItBe]

That was wonderful sparkly.

Praying.....

[Passion]

That is absolutely beautiful. It brought tears to my eyes. Other than to say that, it left me speechless! (good cry)

[D4Christ]

"Abraham" is a spirit guide/demon. My father sent me some teachings of "his" a couple years ago. Didn't have the stomach to read and refute them at the time...they are now in a landfill somewhere...


I just went to Amazon.com..."the secret" is in the top three books, and top three movies...

I just sent the article posted by Wickus out to several friends, family and associates. It may not get as much attention as a, "God loves you...if you want to be blessed send this to 10 friends" message, but it is worth trying to combat the strong recent advances of the new age camp of believers.

[laney]

That was a great letter sparkly. I would be very proud if you were my child sending that to me....

[Passion]

Indeed! Please--keep us posted?

[sparkly]

Well...here is the rather disappointing reply:

hello,

and thank you for your e-mail. i am glad sean got his 'gift' and made
good use of it.

about the dvd 'the secret', i owe you an apology. when thinking of
christmas gifts, we sent 'the secret' to friends and family, and when
i thought of sending it to you & rob, i really decided against doing
so, knowing you are very happy &comfortable in your beliefs.

. . . . . . . and i am glad you confirmed this with your telling me
about your feeling joy everyday. that is special.

so i goofed. i think what probably happened was that ---- & -------
didn't get a copy, and i must have sent the copy intended for them to
you. again, my apologies.

i doesn't sound like you will have further use for it, and if so, will
you please send it to them, or back to me. i would much
appreciate it.


all the best to you, rob & family


bill

And yet he sent me this on 2/7:

hi, ---- is watching oprah right now, and they said that oprah tomorrow (thurs) is going to be on 'the secret'. that should be cool bill

He had to have known I had it...or else this email would have been completely out of the blue...

So, I'm thinking he is lying.

I have no truck with lying.

And I really feel like this could be a relationship breaker for us, such as the relationship is. I had that feeling, when I first unwrapped the dvd on Christmas morning.

So now I get to figure out my reply...

Sorry for taking over this thread.

[D4Christ]

And I really feel like this could be a relationship breaker for us, such as the relationship is. I had that feeling, when I first unwrapped the dvd on Christmas morning.

So now I get to figure out my reply...

Sorry for taking over this thread.

You did not take over the thread. I started this thread because it is shocking to realize how insideous and crafty the new age/new thought movement really is. Christians are being hijacked and they act like they are walking in a daze.

I really sympathize for you...I too have a dad who is very learned but will try anything that is contrary to the bible. It is like he is always looking for truth but running away from the gospel.

Continue to be pleasant and loving to your father....but stand your ground on your faith. We may plant seeds but G-d watereth and gives the increase. When it is time for your father to make a decision he will remember your conversations.

I will be praying for your strength. G-d bless!

[kazbo]

Continue to be pleasant and loving to your father....but stand your ground on your faith. We may plant seeds but G-d watereth and gives the increase. When it is time for your father to make a decision he will remember your conversations.

I second that, Sparkly. Your e-mail was wonderfully written and not in vain. You planted the seeds, the Lord will water them as he sees fit. Just keep treating him with respect, as is right.

For what it's worth, I'm bummed about my parents and where they stand. They've been attending a liberal Presbyterian church for years. It looks so "Christian", but some of the things taught there are enough to make me throw up, including the oh-so-wonderful "the Bible can't be taken literally." (that would include any references to homosexuality) Sigh.

[sparkly]

Thanks for all the encouragement, friends.

It's hard to be respectful...I don't respect him. I guess I have to respect his position, and yet, he gave that position up 34 years ago when he left my mom and me.

It's hard when parents don't believe...aren't they supposed to know better?!?

I will try to be gentle though, as I write my reply! And reply I must, he didn't answer or even address any of my questions or comments about 'the secret' dvd.

[Passion]

He probably didn't address any of your comments because he's feeling so convicted right now! When I was a non-believer (and playing somewhat in the New Age dumpster), I ran like it was the devil, not God after me every time I heard something like what you said to your dad! I just didn't want to hear any of it, because of my evil heart that was having so much "fun", and just wanted to keep on sinning. And it didn't help that at least one of the Christians who witnessed to me was about the most arrogent, selfish, controlling, pompous man I'd ever met, but that's another story.....

Anyway, like the others have said, you planted good seeds. You did the best you could and were faithful, and that's all God expects....He doesn't expect you to "convert" people--that's His job, if they will listen to Him--He just expects you to be a faithful witness, and you were. Now the rest is up to Him and your dad.

I guess while we're on the subject of apostate fathers, and praying for them, could we pray for mine, too? I once thought my dad was a Christian, because one time when I was 12 or so, our church went to some service in a nearby city; it may have been a "revival" type thing, I don't remember, 'cause I wanted nothing to do with it and paid no attention....but anyway, they did an altar call and my dad went down there. I thought he was nuts. Mom told me later that he said it was amazing, and people around him started speaking in tongues, etc. (then I thought she was nuts); so I guess later on I thought that meant he was saved. However, for years before that and ever since (to this day, and he is 82), he was a Mason. In fact, it may have been around that time at the "revival" that he was, or soon became, the so-called "Worshipful Master" of his lodge. He's as high up in this now as one can possibly go, yuck! But growing up, I was always told these guys were Christians; then some years ago they were saying you no longer had to be a Christian to join, just believe in a "higher power" and that kind of bugged me. But I never used to believe the things they said about the Masons--however I do now, after a lot of reading up on it. I have a book on order now, written by a former Mason--can't wait 'til it gets here!

Anyway, it sounds like my dad is eyeball-deep in a cult at least as evil as your dad's "New Age" thing...ugggh. I think I can identify with what you're going through!

[D4Christ]

Passion,

Please do update us after you read the book written by the former mason. My dad, a new ager is not a mason but his brother is. In fact, I have masons on both sides of my family and I would like to learn more.

As a side note, the women are not innocent either. I worked with a woman (a real nut-case) who was a Daughter of Isis...she was so proud of it. But when you read up on it, these people practice all kinds of paganism with symbols and titles like your High this or that. She skeeved me and I was glad when I left that job.

Also sparkly, I just wanted to say that I know you want your dad to answer your questions, but I find that I run into two kinds of new-agers. Those who are so versed and convinced of their beliefs that they don't mind a "good arguement" and are always trying to persuade you. And those who will never answer your questions and in fact may ignore your questions or you completely if you push too hard.

So, if dad gets defensive when you push for answers , do not be surprised. Just agree to disagree, while being true to who you are, even if it means mentioning how G-d has blessed you, whether he appreciates it or not.

[glovzz]

Deleted by glovzz

[Passion]

Hi, D4Christ! Yes, I'll let you know how that book is. Maybe I'll start a thread on it once I've read it in case there are others out there who's friends or family members are into this. For the record, if anyone's interested in checking it out for themselves now, the book is called "Masonry: Beyond the Light", by William Schnoebelen, and I ordered it off the Chick Publications website. http://www.chick.com/default.asp If you go there, on the homepage on the right, there's a little box that says "live interviews can so embarassing..." If you click on that you will see why--wow!

They have a lot of books re. cults; and also tracts for witnessing, etc. I had never heard of them until the other day I was listening to CSN (Calvary Satellite Network) and one of the pastors was recommending the book I ordered to a caller. He said the book was written by a former Mason who was as high up as one can go (like my dad--I don't remember the "degree"--maybe it's 33rd or something). He said something about how this author was basically "prayed out" of Masonry, that God just did an amazing work in his heart, and now he's warning others and encouraging them to pray like mad for their loved ones in Masonry, for they can be delivered.

What I liked when I heard about this particular book was, it was written by a former, elite Mason himself--not someone on the outside who has "heard" this or that about Masonry. That kind of info is not valid, as far as I'm concerned--I don't want heresay, I want solid info from one who has been there, done that--and supposedly this man has, so we'll see.

[D4Christ]

Just a quick update....The Secret remains the #1 best selling book on Amazon, which updates hourly.

In the follow up show to The Secret, here is how they answered the question of where G-d was in all of this?

Maureen has a question many people want answered: "[My family puts] our faith in God, and it seems that The Secret teaches you to put your faith in yourself. And so I was wondering, is God anywhere in this?"

Michael says The Secret involves the laws of the universe and they, in turn, describe the nature of how God works. "[Jesus] said, 'Pray believing that ye have that ye may receive.' That's The Secret in a nutshell," he says. "Pray believing and feeling and sensing that you already have it, and then you're available to receive it."

Michael says The Secret isn't about contradicting religion—it supports it. "It actually goes underneath the culture and explains to you the sacred laws that these wonderful teachers have brought to us," he says. According to James, The Secret is about supporting the great spiritual traditions in a more modern form. "It really is just putting Christianity, Judaism, all the great teachings into a current vernacular," he says.

And this is how The Secret deals with heaven and hell:

As a Christian, Maureen says she believes in heaven and hell, and she's concerned that The Secret's promotion of free will and personal choice imply that you do not face a final judgment.

James says that while he honors Maureen's Christian belief system, he suggests looking at the concepts of heaven, hell and judgment in a different way. "Jesus the Christ said the kingdom of heaven is within. He didn't say it was out there somewhere—[he said] within. And so is it possible to consider that the kingdom of hell is within as well?" he says.

"The kingdom of God is actually in us, and what comes out of your mouth, what you think about, how you express—you're either participating in the realm of ever-expanding good or you're cutting yourself off from the realm," Michael says.

Michael suggests that instead of living a life preparing for some ultimate reward, you should live in the now. "When you're anticipating some future good, you're preventing that good that is all around you from expressing through you," he says. "[Don't] put life on the layaway plan and try to anticipate that it's going to get good in the future."

They are crafty...even the very elect may be deceived.

[sparkly]

me:

Hello!

I can send it on, that's fine.

Did you have any comments to my questions and concerns?

~S

him:

not really. what is working for you is working for you, and that is great.

i am happy that you have it all figured out, and that you feel joy
everyday. it can't get any better than that.
bill

me:

Well...I guess that's understandable. But I did spend hours on my email to you...I think there are some valid questions for you about the dvd...

This isn't about me having it all figured out. To me, this is about, what do you do, with Jesus? I honestly want to know. I am not trying to score points, or win some war of words. If I believe Jesus is the Way, shouldn't I try to share that with you? I have been silent, out of respect and consideration, for years. And then 'the secret' dvd was sent to me. It seemed you wanted dialogue about it, you sent me that email on 2/7 to tell me it would be featured on Oprah. I had the feeling you were waiting for feedback on it from me...

It doesn't seem fair, that you would send that to me, about your beliefs, but not engage me in conversation about mine?

~S

This is not just anybody, this is my father. I think I have a little leeway...

We shall see...


ps, I will not send it to my stepsister, I will send it back to my father and he can do whatever with it.

I might sound angry here...this really isn't out of anger. This is...26 years of dealing with the new age, spirits, that he lives by and has brought into my life. I have really had it. I'm tired of the junk. Can't even have a normal father/daughter relationship.

Some things were said and done over the summer...I feel like he is cutting me off, and I don't really have anything to lose.

I have an idea how a father thinks of his children, because my husband is a good father...but...I don't have that for myself, never had. And it has colored my relationship with God. He love me..."but"...

He is my heavenly Father...but...how my earthly father has failed me...it's hard not to translate that to the Lord.

And I really feel like I'm monopolizing this thread...I'm sorry. I will pray for your fathers too...

[Passion]

No, you're not monopolizing. Please don't feel bad about sharing your spiritual troubles--that's what we're here for, to love, support, and pray for each other! That's what the Body does. And remember that your heavenly Father is the absolute perfect Father that none of us ever had, or could have had. He has promised never to leave you or forsake you, and unlike earthly fathers (not to mention the rest of us! ) He always keeps His promises! He has said we can even call Him "Abba", which basically means "Daddy". And you will always be "Daddy's" little girl!

[Mttw633]

One of the guests on Oprah named Michael Beckwith (the guy w/ the dreadlocks) is having a seminar with Barbara Marx Hubbard at his 'church' here is what they're going to talk about: And notice how new agey this sounds compared to the slick packaging we got on Oprah:
http://tinyurl.com/3xw53t

February 23, 2007
7:00pm - 9:00pm
Humanity Ascending Screening and Dialogue with Barbara Marx Hubbard and Dr. Michael Bernard Beckwith


HUMANITY ASCENDING: A New Way Through Together

Humanity Ascending is a groundbreaking documentary series featuring author, futurist Barbara Marx Hubbard. In this transformational series, each DVD presents vital elements to awaken the codes for our own conscious evolution and offers direction, meaning and a vision toward our birth as a new humanity.

OUR STORY: The Untold History of Humanity As Seen Through Evolutionary Eyes, the first DVD in the Humanity Ascending Series, spans the history of the evolutionary journey of our species from the big bang to current times, where we find ourselves precariously standing at the edge of conscious evolution or self-destruction. Our story is seen through evolutionary eyes as the unfoldment of a fourteen billion year journey of transformation, now pressing us forward to give birth within ourselves to a universal human and a universal humanity capable of coevolving with nature and cocreating with spirit. Our storyteller, Barbara Marx Hubbard, provides the unique perspective of viewing our history through what she terms as “evolutionary eyes” as the unfoldment of a fourteen billion year journey of transformation that is now pressing us forward to give birth to a new, never before seen, universal humanity. This compelling vision of hope sees us at an evolutionary edge where the old world is dying and the new world is being born.


Sounds like the 'age of aquarius'. Nothing new under the sun.

[D4Christ]

Sounds like the 'age of aquarius'. Nothing new under the sun.

Mttw633, but there is something new about this evolution that most of us are unaware of.

Barbara specifically states in her book, "The Revelation: A Message of Hope for the New Millenium" that humanity cannot evolve with those unwilling to accpet their own divinity, as well as the divnity of others. In order to experience this birth she is speaking of, we will have to first get rid of those unwilling to evolve througth what "Christ" told her was the "Selection Process."

I wrote this earlier in the thread, but I think it warrants repeating here. We cannot afford to get relaxed in the body of Christ, especially since we now suspect this could be the 70th week. Eerily enough, the new agers in some sense already know something new is getting ready to happen and feel the time will come soon to remove those who are not ready to evolve.

...In fact, the only thing holding back the evolution of the entire race from recognizing their "Christ" potential are those of us who believe that we are not gods, and that we have been separated from G-d through our sinful nature.

But the new agers have a simple solution for those of us who will not accept our divinity. It is a well-documented "Selection Process." They believe that "god" revealed to them that those who will not accept their dvinity will not be "raptured" into a higher form and will have to be killed like cancer. The god of the universe will not allow those who cling to old, traditional beliefs to hold back the evolution of mankind. So we will be killed and will not be given new bodies until we let go of our "self-centeredness."

Babara Marx Hubbard in her 1993 book titled, "The Revelation: A Message of Hope for the New Millenium" openly speaks about The Selection Process (excerpt below). If you want to know the reasoning behind the AC's assault on Christians during the Great Tribulation, read the excerpts about what "god" supposedly told Barbara about those who refuse to call themselves gods.

Here is an excert from the research of Warren Smith, author of the online book, "Reinventing Jesus.":

No worldly peace can prevail until the self-centered members of the planetary body either change, or die. That is the choice. The red horse is the destruction during the birth process of those who refuse to be born into God-centered, universal life. They cannot go backward to the womb; they cannot go forward to the new heavens and new earth. They must surely die, or change.

It is a free choice. Evolution is good but it is not nice. Only the good can evolve. Only the God-centered will survive to inherit the powers of a universal species. Evolution empowers the horseman upon the red horse to kill that which cannot love God above all else and his neighbor as himself and himself as the son of God.

This act is as horrible as killing a cancer cell. It must be done for the sake of the future of the whole. So be it; be prepared for the selection process which is now beginning.

So you see, the new agers know exactly what they want...to get rid of us! I think we know should be aware of our enemies tactics. He surely knows ours.

[sparkly]

Well...here is his reply...I feel like I've been naughty.

i agree with you. you did put alot of thought and energy into your
e-mail. here is a response.

i do not get to excited about a dialogue with someone that feels that
i 'turned away from jesus', and that i need to re-find that path.

what i got from that period of my life . . . . from jesus.
1. there is no death
2. that the kingdom of god is within.
3. i can acheive this 'no death', this kingdom
of god . . . . by going
within.

. . . . . . . . and, believe it or not . . . . .i have had, and am
having. . . . . alot of success. you say 'turned away from jesus. . .
. i say 'embraced wholeheartedly'.

if you would like to continue this discussion, i suggest 2 things.
first, finish watching the secret, as some of your questions
regarding it will be answered, . . . . .and second. please keep it to
one question/opinion at a time. that way we can keep simple.

i love you, and appreciate your keeping after this. love

bill

So, I'm going to start with asking who Jesus is to him, and I guess apologize...I feel terrible that I messed up, or made a mistake. Maybe I was too harsh...Did I assume too much, that our Jesuses are not the same? I'm so confused now...don't even know how they are different....


Can anyone help me with how to respond to the inner stuff, the god within stuff...I don't really know how to refute that.



Thanks, passion, for the reminder about God being my heavenly father, and never failing me.

[D4Christ]

Can anyone help me with how to respond to the inner stuff, the god within stuff...I don't really know how to refute that.

I will be looking for specific scriptures to help you and will post them as I come across them. But the first thing you should do is learn the mind of the new ager. Conventional arguements will not work on your father the way they do when speaking to someone, who is learning about the goodness of G-d for the 1st time.

Instead you must remember that your father rejected the Christ of the bible for the "christ" of the new age/new thought movement. Now you are dealing with someone who knows a little scripture mixed with lies.

So, remember there will be a whole lot of truth that your dad will speak and that is where we, as Christians, get confused becasue it sounds so good. But the bible clearly warned about being decieived by new doctrines. Deceived means tricked and most people who are tricked think they are listening to the real deal, but they missed the subtle differences (like being sold fake gold).

I recommend you start with the online book I have been talking about in this thread called, Reinventing Jesus Christ by Warren Smith. Warren is a former new ager who reveals how slick the new age movement is and how they borrow the language of christianity to fool many. It is free online and is an easy-eye opening read, and I think it will prepare you to be aware of the subtleties of new-age speak.

I will keep you posted if I find anyting better. Keep fighting the good fight of faith.

[D4Christ]

sparkly,

I just found another site that addresses the notion of 'god within us' that is used by the new age camp. I encourage you to read it because they cite several examples of what the new agers say and the bible verses they use to support their beliefs. The article also shows how new agers skew biblical interpretations to fit their needs.

The article is called The Serpent's Lie: God Realization.

Hope this helps.

[bwd8908]

The Serpent's Lie: God Realization.

What surprises me is that the person says he learnt this from Christianity. I've noticed that they don't outrightly contradict the Bible but say they have a different take on it. I have to wonder if someone like this is deliberately twisting the Word or just doesn't know better.