Remnant Theology

[mark s]

Referrencing the 70 weeks of Daniel in this discussion is not a red herring if the 70 weeks are not all fulfilled, since they specifically involve national Israel. Just because it was not raised in the OP doesn’t matter. Neither were several other Scriptures mentioned in the OP that have direct implication with a future status of National Israel.

These are relevant point to this topic. If the Bible prophesies that God will be dealing in spiritual matters with national Israel, i.e. the physical descendants of Jacob, in ways that He is not doing with the gentiles, saved or unsaved, then this shows that the OP article was not complete in its conclusions.

I agree that while what is discussed is being called “Remnant Theology”, as it is presented, it functions as “Replacement Theology” by denying Israel’s special end-times role and disposition.

I think that a definition of “national Israel” is in order. When I use this term, I am specifically referring to the physical descendents of Jacob, whether within or without the borders of the modern-day state of Israel.

Love in Christ,
mark

I am sorry that I do not have time right now to comment in detail on the approximately ten screens of posts that you have just made. When I have more time, I will probably try to comment on one point at a time.

Hi Lazarus,

Due to the length of the thread, I needed to download it to take home and spend some time with it, so that I could properly read and assimilate it. I apologize if my replies seem a little overwhelming. I realize I've posted a fair amount of material.

Please, feel free to take all the time you need to prepare a proper response, should you wish to do so.

I realize that I may have misunderstood what the OP article said, and I welcome correction if that is the case.

I do not know if you read the article, but you apparently did not notice what the author wrote about "national Israel" near the end of the article. Right now, I just want to make a short summary of what I understand "remnant theology" to be saying.

I read the article several times. While the author did make a brief comment about "national Israel", it was, in my opinion, lip service only, since his conclusions did not, in my view, leave room for the actual and literal fulfillment of the prophecies made to the descendents of Jacob. Again, if I have understood him correctly.

I believe that what we call the "church" began with a remnant who had began in the law of Moses and then trusted in Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

I'm not sure how you mean this. About a hundred and twenty disciples were baptized into the body of Christ on Pentacost following the resurrection of Jesus, which I believe to be the beginning of the Church Jesus is building. It began with people whom God had called to faith in His Son. There may well have been others who were faithfully practicing the Law. These might have been not faithfully practicing the Law. I don't know, and the Bible doesn't say.

The unbelief of those not in the remnant caused them to be "cut off" and made the same as Gentile unbelievers, just as prophesied.

This is a place I disagree with you. They did not cease to become descendants of Jacob, and I see that there are prophecies made specifically to the descendants of Jacob.

Gentiles who believed were later added to the faithful remnant. They did not replace the remnant. They are not separate from the remnant.

But neither do they become descendants of Jacob.

Gentile believers have been joined to the remnant and become one with the remnant. All unbelievers, Jew and gentile, are cut off, but are able to be added to the faithful if they trust in Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The plan of salvation is the same for all of mankind.

But this reaches beyond the plan of salvation, and speaks of God's plans for the saving of the entire remaining group of the physical descendents of Jacob.

The Greek word translated "church" is "ekklesia" or "ecclesia."

the correct transliteration would be ekklasia, as the letter used is kappa, k.

I have seen it transliterated both ways. As I understand it, that word appears 73 times in the LXX version of the Old Testament, which is what was commonly read in the first century, and is still used by some Christians today. Many New Testament quotes are from it. When the Old Testament faithful gathered and joined in covenant and worshiped God, they were an "ekklesia." Just as gentiles could become part of that "ekklesia," they have been allowed to become part of the New Testament "ekklesia," which began with a faithful remnant of the Old Testament "ekklesia" trusting in Jesus Christ of Nazareth to snatch them from the jaws of sin and death. As I understand it, this is the "church" being built by Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

Ekklesia simply means the "called out". It speaks of a group who were part of another group, and have been called out to form their own group.

Abraham was called out of Ur. Israel was called out of Egypt. We are called out of the world. Essentially, I agree with your understanding of the Church which is being built by Jesus, but that doesn't change that God has specific plans for the salvation of the Jews at the end of the age.

One distinction to be made is that the Old Covenant was not transformed into the New Covenant, it was replaced by the New Covenant.

Love in Christ,
Mark

[Lazarus43]

Please take time to read the following Scripture passages and understand, if you can, "the mystery of Christ." Thank you.
************************************************************
Ephesians 2:8-3:10 (NASB)
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," {which is} performed in the flesh by human hands--
Eph 2:12 {remember} that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both {groups into} one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
Eph 2:15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, {which is} the Law of commandments {contained} in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, {thus} establishing peace,
Eph 2:16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.
Eph 2:17 AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR;
Eph 2:18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.
Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household,
Eph 2:20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner {stone,}
Eph 2:21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,
Eph 2:22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

Eph 3:1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles--
Eph 3:2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you;
Eph 3:3 that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.
Eph 3:4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
Eph 3:5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
Eph 3:6 {to be specific,} that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,
Eph 3:7 of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power.
Eph 3:8 To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,
Eph 3:9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;
Eph 3:10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly {places.}
************************************************************

Also:

************************************************************
Galatians 3:6-29 (NASB)
Gal 3:6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Gal 3:7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, {saying,} "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."
Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."
Gal 3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Gal 3:12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"--
Gal 3:14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is {only} a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.
Gal 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as {referring} to many, but {rather} to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.
Gal 3:17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
Gal 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not for one {party only;} whereas God is {only} one.
Gal 3:21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.
Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor {to lead us} to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
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*Red coloring by Lazarus43.
*Caps are in NASB text.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

[mark s]

Hey Laz, my eyes are ok.

Thanks anyway!

These are Scriptures I've read and studied previously, and continue to study. Thank you for quoting them.

I'm curious, though, do this verses in some way express to you that God no longer has a plan, or prophecies to fulfill, towards "national Israel"?

Love in Christ,
Mark

[Lazarus43]

Hey Laz, my eyes are ok.

Thanks anyway!

These are Scriptures I've read and studied previously, and continue to study. Thank you for quoting them.

I'm curious, though, do this verses in some way express to you that God no longer has a plan, or prophecies to fulfill, towards "national Israel"?

Love in Christ,
Mark

I believe it is important to understand "the mystery of Christ" expressed in the passages that I just quoted in order to understand "remnant theology". Perhaps you could help me understand your understanding of "the mystery of Christ" in the scripture passages just quoted.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

[mark s]

Eph 3:4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, . . . that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,[/b]

This seems fairly clear to me. But the promise in Christ through the gospel, of which we are all partakers, does not in my view negate the fact that God made promises to the physical descendants of Jacob that have yet to be fulfilled.

Love in Christ,
Mark

[Hippiechic]

I agree with the article on remnant theology, but Mark S seems to have some good arguments. (you argue SMART, man! ) I shall have to take some time and go over the article more closely.

I have believed remnant theology for some time now... but do not exclude national Israel. Perhaps it is simply in the wording of this specific article? Others are not that way... Maybe those who are confused should do further study on remnant theology. Anyhow, I will read again! It is a fascinating topic... I am so blessed to be a partaker of the promises! Because of Jesus Christ I am blessed in Abraham!!

[seekingtruth]

Hi Mark,

I agree with you. There are many unfulfilled promises in regard to national Israel that the Church cannot fulfill by geography alone, among other reasons.

In regards to salvation, we are all the same. We are loved equally by our Blessed Father and His Only Begotten, Jesus Christ. Neither Jew nor Greek. But while here on Earth, prophecies must be fulfilled and Israel plays a part, not at our exclusion, but at their inclusion.

God bless

[Hippiechic]

I just read the original post. This is exactly right. See "Parable of Two Trains" by Mark Webb (just Google it) for an excellent description of Progressive Dispensationalism which goes hand-in-hand with this idea.

I will have to read the rest of the thread, but this is the logical outcome of rejecting the fabricated Pre-trib doctrine--and it's close pal Dispensationalism--and opens up the Scripture to all kinds of wonderful truths!!

Excellent Post!! Thank you for such a well-put enlightening post.


ChrisJ

[Hippiechic]

Yep... re-read it and still agree with it! And thanks to my Hunny... I really know I still agree with it!

Lots of love to Chris J!

[Lazarus43]

I just read the original post. This is exactly right. See "Parable of Two Trains" by Mark Webb (just Google it) for an excellent description of Progressive Dispensationalism which goes hand-in-hand with this idea.

I will have to read the rest of the thread, but this is the logical outcome of rejecting the fabricated Pre-trib doctrine--and it's close pal Dispensationalism--and opens up the Scripture to all kinds of wonderful truths!!

Excellent Post!! Thank you for such a well-put enlightening post.


ChrisJ

If anyone is interested, I found "Parable of Two Trains" by Mark Webb as a copyrighted four part series in "Sound of Grace Online" which has a home page at http://www.soundofgrace.com/

I agree with its author that it is not a perfect analogy, but it does make a good attempt to illustrate some theological problems.

The Parable of the Two Trains - Part One of Four

The Parable of the Two Trains - Part Two of Four

The Parable of the Two Trains - Part Three of Four

The Parable of the Two Trains - Part Four of Four

I liked the author's conclusion at the end of part four:

My purpose, as stated from the beginning, is not to present a full-blown description of the various covenantal positions existing in today’s theological world, nor a comprehensive defense of my own position. Rather, I’ve simply tried to offer an illustration that allows the average person to get an intellectual handle on the positions ‘out there.’ In addition, I’ve sought to throw some light on problems the two major positions fail to address, while attempting to offer a viable alternative. I hope that others will improve upon my offering. Anyone who strives to arrive at a solution to this problem that is biblical and Christ-honoring, that sets forth the demands of obedience to Christ while avoiding legalism, and that sets forth the glory of free grace while avoiding antinomianism, has my deepest respect and heartfelt appreciation!

So, while I’m not about to part company from those who see these matters differently from me, I do want to stress how important one’s covenantal position is! How we see the ‘big picture’ will inevitably flavor and taint every area of our theology to some degree. If I am to be a careful and skillful teacher of God’s Word, it’s essential that I grasp the flow of God’s redemptive purpose in Christ, the interrelationship of scripture, and, especially, the principles which define our duty to God and man. May God enlighten and assist us in this quest.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

[Lazarus43]

Eph 3:4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, . . . that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,[/b]

This seems fairly clear to me. But the promise in Christ through the gospel, of which we are all partakers, does not in my view negate the fact that God made promises to the physical descendants of Jacob that have yet to be fulfilled.

Love in Christ,
Mark

It is interesting that you thought it necessary to replace part of the scripture passage with "..."

Perhaps Ephesians 3:5 is relevant to our understanding and was inspired by the Holy Spirit just as the words before and after it.

Eph 3:4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
Eph 3:5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
Eph 3:6 {to be specific,} that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

It is by still not understanding "the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men" that false doctrines flourish. It is by ignoring what "has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit" in many New Testament Scriptures that a false hope of some kind of "universal Jewish ethnic salvation" is promoted.

It is very simply not true that modern "national Israel," which is made up of many ethnic and religious peoples, and "the physical descendants of Jacob" are one in the same and deserving special favor above all other people from both God and man. It is quite illogical and a false teaching.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

[mark s]

It is interesting that you thought it necessary to replace part of the scripture passage with "..."

Hi Lazarus,

"thought it necessary", not so much, considered it expedient - simply trying to quote the defining portion towards what you were asking.

Perhaps Ephesians 3:5 is relevant to our understanding and was inspired by the Holy Spirit just as the words before and after it.

Of course it is inspired, and of course it is relevant, however, it is not a part of how Paul defines the "mystery of Christ". If you want to make my abbreviation somehow significant in a way that its not, well, you can do that.

Eph 3:4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
Eph 3:5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
Eph 3:6 {to be specific,} that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

It is by still not understanding "the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men" that false doctrines flourish. It is by ignoring what "has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit" in many New Testament Scriptures that a false hope of some kind of "universal Jewish ethnic salvation" is promoted.

In this generation it has been made known, even as Paul, in this place, makes it known. But the more complete revelation of God's grace and truth in the New Testament does not negate God's promise to the descendants of Jacob given in the Old Testament.

It is very simply not true that modern "national Israel," which is made up of many ethnic and religious peoples, and "the physical descendants of Jacob" are one in the same and deserving special favor above all other people from both God and man. It is quite illogical and a false teaching.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

So long as we are using different definitions of "national Israel", we will not be able to reasonably discuss this. Please allow me to try and be more clear on who I am referring to as "national Israel".

When I use the term, "National Israel", I am not referring to the citizens of the modern state of Israel, as determined by their civic association alone.

When I use the term, "National Israel", I am referring to the physical descendants of Jacob, whether they be citizens of the polical state of Israel, or Brazil, or Japan, or any other nation.

Jer 31:36 If these ordinances depart from before Me, says Jehovah, the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me forever.
Jer 31:37 So says Jehovah, If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be searched out, I will also reject all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, declares Jehovah.

If this is not clear to you, please let me know, otherwise, I would appreciate if you would affirm your understanding of what I am saying here, since I've said this several times before, and you persist in arguing as if I am somehow referring to the political citizens of the modern state of Israel. By "National Israel", I mean the "physical descendants of Jacob, not more, not less.

Love in Christ,
Mark

[Lazarus43]

So long as we are using different definitions of "national Israel", we will not be able to reasonably discuss this. Please allow me to try and be more clear on who I am referring to as "national Israel".

When I use the term, "National Israel", I am not referring to the citizens of the modern state of Israel, as determined by their civic association alone.

When I use the term, "National Israel", I am referring to the physical descendants of Jacob, whether they be citizens of the polical state of Israel, or Brazil, or Japan, or any other nation.

Jer 31:36 If these ordinances depart from before Me, says Jehovah, the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me forever.
Jer 31:37 So says Jehovah, If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be searched out, I will also reject all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, declares Jehovah.

If this is not clear to you, please let me know, otherwise, I would appreciate if you would affirm your understanding of what I am saying here, since I've said this several times before, and you persist in arguing as if I am somehow referring to the political citizens of the modern state of Israel. By "National Israel", I mean the "physical descendants of Jacob, not more, not less.

Love in Christ,
Mark

I now understand that to you "national Israel" means the "physical descendants of Jacob, not more, not less."

I also understand that to you "national Israel" does not mean "the political citizens of the modern state of Israel."

I will try to remember.
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It might be interesting to see if anything about Jeremiah 31:36-37 would be revealed by more context. It might also be interesting to see if any of the context of Jeremiah 31:36-37 is mentioned in the New Testament book of Hebrews.

I need to do other things right now, but feel free to continue without me.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

[mark s]

Thank you, Laz, I've got a lot on my plate right now, too, maybe we can come back to this later.

I'll do as you've suggested, however, and look at the greater context in Jeremiah, to see if that effects my understanding of this passage.

Love in Christ,
Mark

[AndCanItBe]

I now understand that to you "national Israel" means the "physical descendants of Jacob, not more, not less."

I also understand that to you "national Israel" does not mean "the political citizens of the modern state of Israel."

My understanding of "national Israel" is the same as Mark's. It might be interesting to start a poll and see how many define it the same as Mark does. The terms we use sure can be the source of a lot of misunderstandings around here.

[Lazarus43]

I now understand that to you "national Israel" means the "physical descendants of Jacob, not more, not less."

I also understand that to you "national Israel" does not mean "the political citizens of the modern state of Israel."

My understanding of "national Israel" is the same as Mark's. It might be interesting to start a poll and see how many define it the same as Mark does. The terms we use sure can be the source of a lot of misunderstandings around here.

I agree.

Definition of "National Israel" poll

Blessings,
Lazarus43

[Mrs. B]

The New Covenant makes Both One.......


Isaiah 56:3.....Neither let the son of the stranger.....that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying,
The Lord hath utterly Separated Me.....from His People:
Neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a Dry Tree....

4......For thus saith the Lord unto the Eunuchs that keep My Sabbaths,
and choose the Things that Please Me.....and take hold of MY COVENANT.....

5........Even unto them will I Give in Mine House and within My Walls a place.....and a Name Better than of sons and daughters:
I Will give them An Everlasting Name.....that shall Not Be Cut Off...

6.......Also the Sons of the Stranger, that Join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him, and to Love the Name of the Lord, to be His Servants, every one that Keepeth the Sabbath from Polluting it....
and taketh hold of MY Covenant....


7.....Even them Will I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN.......
AND mAKE THEM jOYFUL IN mY hOUSE OF pRAYER:
THEIR BURNT OFFERINGS AND THEIR SACRIFICES SHALL BE aCCEPTED UPON mINE aLTAR;
FOR mINE hOUSE SHALL bE CALLED aN hOUSE OF pRAYER......

Our bodies......are the dwelling Place of God.....The Church....the house of Prayer.....burnt offerings and Sacrifices.....of Praise...by our mouth and our heart.....Offering sacrifices acceptable..... the fruit of our mouth....unto the Lord....

8.....The Lord God which Gathereth the Outcasts of Israel saith.....

Yet Will I Gather Others to Him....Beside those that are Gathered unto Him....

Isaiah 59:19......So shall they fear the Name of the Lord from the West,
and His Glory from the Rising of the Sun....
When the Enemy shall come in like a Flood....
The Spirit of the Lord shall Lift up a Standard against Him....

20.....And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from Transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.

22......AS FOR ME......THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM......SAith the Lord....
My SPIRIT THAT IS UPON THEE, AND MY WORDS WHICH I HAVE PUT IN THY MOUTH......shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth
of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord from henceforth and for ever.....

God calls the Gentiles.....

Isaiah 60:1.....Arise, shine;
for thy light is come, and the Glory of the Lord is risen upon thee....

2......For, Behold, the darkness shall cover the Earth, and Gross Darkness the People:
But The Lord shall Rise upon thee, and His Glory shall be seen Upon thee.

3.......And the Gentiles shall come to thy Light......and Kings to the Brightness of thy Rising....

4......Lift up thine eyes round about, AND SEE:
ALL they Gather themselves together, they come to Thee:
Thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be Nursed at thy side...

5......Then thou shall SEE, AND FLOW TOGETHER, AND THINE HEART SHALL FEAR, AND BE ENLARGED;
Because the Aboundance of the sea..(sea=Peoples)shall be converted unto thee......
The Forces of the Gentiles shall come unto Thee.....

10......And the Sons of Strangers shall Build up thy Walls, and their Kings shall Minister unto Thee: for My Wrath I smote thee....But in my Favour have I had mercy on thee......

18......Violence shall No More be heard in Thy Land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders;
But thou shall be Call Thy Walls Salvation, and thy Gates Praise....

19......The sun shall be no more thy light by day;
neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee:
But the Lord shall be unto thee An Everlasing Light, and thy God thy Glory.....

21.......Thy People also shall be All Righteous:
They shall Inherit the Land for Ever,
The Branch of My Planting, the Work of My Hands,
That I May be Glorified....

22.......A Little One shall become a Thousand, and a small one a Strong Nation: I the Lord will Hasten it in His Time.....


Isaiah 63:15......Look Down from Heaven, and behold from the Habitation of thy Holiness and of thy Glory:
where is thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they Restrained?

16......Doubtless thou art Our Father....
Though Abraham be Ignorant of Us,
and Israel Acknowledge us not:
Thou O, Lord Art Our Father, Our Redeemer
Thy Name is From everlasting.....

Isaiah 65:1.......I Am sought of them that asked not for me;
I Am found of them that sought me not:
I said, Behold me, Behold me, unto a Nation that was not called by Name.

2......I have Spread out my hands all the day unto a Rebellious People, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their Own Thouths:


Jeremiah 7:23......But this thing commanded I them....saying, Obey My Voice and I will be your God, and ye shall be My People:
and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you....

24.....But they hearkened not nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart....and went backward, and not forward....

34......Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the Streets of Jerusalem, the Voice of Mirth, and the voice of Gladness, the Voice of the Bridegroom and the voice of the bride:
for the Land shall be desolate..........


Paul wrote.....
Gal. 3:26.......For Ye are all the Children of God......BY FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS.....

27......For as many of you as have been Bptized into Christ have put on Christ..........

28.......There is Neither JEW nor GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither Male nor Female: for ye are ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS....

29.....And....If ye be Christ's....Then are Ye Abraham's Seed, and Heirs According to the PROMISE....


The New Birth......is a New Holy People.......A Holy Nation.....A Peculiar People........Born of the Spirit of God......Called by a New Name Christian......sons of God......not born of the Flesh but by the Will of God....

We are all of One Body......Made One by the Spirit.....
Ephesians 2:11.....Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh....
who are called UNcircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh...MADE BY HANDS;

12.......That at that time ye were withOut Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel,
and Strangers from the Covenants of Promise....
having No Hope, and without God in the World:

13......But Now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the Blood of Christ.

14......For he is Our Peace, Who hath made BOTH ONE.....AND HATH broken down the Middle Wall of Partition Between Us;

15......Having Abolished in His Flesh the Enmity, even the law of Commandments Contained in Ordinances;
for to Make in HIMSELF of Twain One New Man...so making Peace;

16.......And that he might Reconcile BOTH UNTO GOD......IN ONE BODY...BY THE CROSS......having slain the enmity thereby:

17.....And came and preached peace...to you wheich were afar off....and to them that were nigh.....

18.....FOR....THROUGH HIM.....WE BOTH HAVE ACCESS BY ONE SPIRIT UNTO THE FATHER.........

22.....In whom ye also are builded togethr for an Habitation of God through the Spirit........


He has made both One.....




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[Lazarus43]

Thank you for posting those passages,"Mrs. B". You have shown that in both the Old Testament and the New Testament it was written that there is hope for both Jews and Gentiles 'who are of faith".

I would like to add a little more context to one of your New Testament quotes just to show how clearly that what you have said is true.
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Galatians 3:6-29 (NASB)
Gal 3:6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Gal 3:7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.

Gal 3:8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, {saying,} "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."

Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."

Gal 3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Gal 3:12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"--

Gal 3:14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is {only} a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.

Gal 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as {referring} to many, but {rather} to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

Gal 3:17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

Gal 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not for one {party only;} whereas God is {only} one.

Gal 3:21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.

Gal 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor {to lead us} to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
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*CAPS are in NASB text.
*Blue coloring by Lazarus43 for emphasis.

Blessings,
Lazarus43

[Hippiechic]

Gives me goosebumps just thinkin' about it! The promise to Abraham... fulfilled in the seed, CHRIST!, and now fulfilled in us! And as the sands by the sea shore so are the descendants of Abraham through Christ! What a great promise it was!

[Mrs. B]

This Excites me also......

continueing in Ephesians....


Eph. 3:1

1......FOR THIS CAUSE.......I Paul, the Prisoner of Jesus Christ....for the Gentiles....,

2.....If ye have Heard of the Dispensation of the Grace of God....Which is given Me to Youward.....


3.....How that by REVELATION.....He Made Known unto me the Mystery;
(as I wrote afore in few words

4....Whereby, When ye read,......Ye may Understand My Knowledge
In the Mystery of Christ)

5......Which in other ages was not made known unto the Sons of Men, as it is now Revealed Unto His Holy Apostles......and Prophets by the Holy Spirit;

6.....That the Gentiles should be Fellowheirs.......and of the Same Body.....and Partakers of The Promise in Christ by the Gospel:


7......Whereof....I was made a Minister, according to the Gift of the Grace of God Given unto Me....by the effectual Working of His Power.


8.....Unto Me, Who am less than the least of All Saints, is this Grace Given, that I should Preach.....Among the Gentiles....The Unsearchable Riches of Christ......


9.....And to Make All Men SEE What is the Fellowship of the Mystery....Which From the Beginning of the World.......
HATH BEEN HID IN GOD........
Who Created All things by Jesus Christ:

10.....To the Intent that...... Now Unto the Principalities and Powers in Heavenly Places...........Might be Known by the CHURCH....... the Manifold Wisdom of God.


14.....For this cause I Bow My Knees unto the Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ,

15....Of Whom the WHOLE FAMILY IN HEAVEN AND EARTH IS NAMED,

16.....That He would Grant You, According to the Riches of His Glory, to Be Strengthened with Might........ by HIS SPIRIT IN THE INNER MAN;

17......That Christ May Dwell in Your Hearts BY FAITH;
THAT YE BEING Rooted and Grounded in Love,

18.....May be Able to Comprehend...... with All Saints What is the Breadth and Length, and Depth, and Height;

19.....And to KNOW the Love of Christ.....Which passeth Knowledge, that Ye Might Be filled With All the FULNESS OF GOD.

20.....Now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

21.....Unto Him Be Glory in the Church By Christ Jesus...Throughout All Ages.....World without End....AMEN.




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