Unreported News, Commentary, Resources and Discussion of Bible Prophecy
|
PS-->Only one thing I differ with you -The 10 horns being controlled by an Islamic Beast; the Jewish people--even though they've turned very secular in their thinking--would never accept an Islamic Saviour per se. Nevertheless, I'm open to new ideas, & if you can possibly research further & find Biblical & Historical "evidence," I would be very appreciative.
Nevertheless, I'm open to new ideas, & if you can possibly research further & find Biblical & Historical "evidence," I would be very appreciative.
If you have taken the time to read this far, then you see why I believe America may be the Mystery Babylon. The damage has been done here in America. Are we now beyond the point of no return? How shall we live in such a troubling time? Our time is short.
crmann and others,
This is a very compelling account and very interesting. These are very convincing parallels drawn between NYC/USA and the great prostitute. Particularly the economic parallels and exportation of Western culture. But it does not seem to all hang together for me. For example, has NYC/USA been guilty of shedding the blood of the saints, as per the following versus?
Rev 17:6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
Rev 18:24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth."
Is it clear from these verses that the great prostitute has been responsible for killing large numbers of Saints? Admittedly we can see mockery of Christians as a form of persecution, but blood? Shedding the blood of the saints has happened in many nations over the course of history, and continues to happen. Does NYC/USA fulfill this aspect of prophecy about “drunk with the blood of the saints?”
Also, I suspect that almost all of the immorality found in NYC/USA can be found elsewhere to a greater degree elsewhere (e.g., other US cities and places in Europe). At least many people in the US are still fighting against the ideas/practice of gay “marriage,” abortion, embryonic stem cell research, etc. Countries in Europe are way ahead of us in going down that slippery slope. So, yes USA is declining in morality as a Nation, but are we the worst? And are we the great prostitute if there are other prostitutes worse yet than us?
[An aside, and not to disrupt the thread, I grew up in a marginally Roman Catholic family and never heard the gospel till years later as an adult. When I read about this great prostitute, I can’t help it, I always see the RC church/Vatican City/Rome. Admittedly, I may be bias by my disgust with the RC church and its horribly blasphemous official doctrine (which I have researched and been appalled at what I saw) (although I know many individual Catholics are believers and our brothers and sisters).]
LTL, Over thirty million unborn children have been slain here in America since Row vs Wade. Is not the blood of those souls crying out to God the Father even now? How many of those innocent unborn would have been saints of the Lord?
agree, many people in the US are still fighting against these sins, however are we now fighting a losing battle?
please don’t think I am being stubborn and unyielding here about Mystery Babylon being America. If others can persuade me otherwise, then I will be the wiser for it.
crmann wrote:Modernism, humanism, satanism....
Luke 12:48
But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.
We look upon the most despicable of sins being committed in the name of modernism and humanism and satanism here in America.
America cries peace, peace, when there is no peace. America cries security when there is no security. America has opened its door to a brood of vipers [The U.N.]. America has left the narrow road, and the road grows wider daily.
America has been given in abundance, and much will be expected of it. And woe to America who has received the light of Christ only to turn away to darkness (Satan) and to destroy the souls of the many.
crmann wrote:And these are only our teenagers. The above statistics make no mention of the millions who will go on as adults to have immoral lifestyles. They also do not take into account many who have yet to have sexual intercourse outside of marriage but who participate in deviant sexual behavior or the millions who have exposed themselves to pornographic materials on television, and the Internet or other sources.
She is a City of Sorcery and Drugs
As “Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and the Abominations of the earth” this city “has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird” (Rev. 17:5, 18:2). She has become home to demonically inspired depravity.
Not only is she immoral, she has become a haven for demonic activity. This is probably connected with her love and fascination with witchcraft and sorcery. For “all the nations of the world were deceived by her sorcery” (Rev. 18:23). The word for sorcery here is derived from pharmakeia and means drugs (illicit and otherwise) and also casting spells. She has an intense drug problem and a fascination with witchcraft. Movies and books like Harry Potter have helped stir up a huge grass roots interest in sorcery.
She is a Workaholic Materialistic Culture
Babylon has captured not only human labor, but also people’s very lives. This goes beyond labor. This system is a way of life to which the entire world has submitted. It is out of this mindset, this love of pleasure and bondage to a materialistic way of life that God is trying to call his people. A voice from heaven warns God’s people saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive her plagues, for her sins have piled up as high as
heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities” (Rev. 18:4-5). The Church is warned to not become seduced by Babylon and commit sin with her, lest we share in her judgment.
So how are we doing? Amazingly, although 120 million American adults regularly attend church, only seven percent identified spiritual wholeness and development as the factor that will produce a successful life. Only 15 million of the 120 million identified success as being something other than personal accomplishments and material possessions. A large majority of both adults and teenagers, confessing Christians and non-Christians contend that there is no absolute moral truth. While most of these people describe themselves as followers of Christ and say the Bible is accurate in all of its teachings, they nevertheless believe that truth is based on feelings, experience and emotion.
Christian pollster George Barna goes on to say,
“This is one of the greatest deceptions of our age. Embracing relativism under the guise of the Christian faith facilitates comfort with sin. By claiming the authority to determine right from wrong, we crown ourselves the kings and queens of reality, yet we have no such authority and we constantly pay the price for the arrogance of believing and acting like we are in control of our destiny and experience. What an affront it is to God for us to claim His name and protection but to resist His moral truths on the basis of human feelings.”
Is it any wonder God warns his people to come out of Babylon that they might not share in her judgments?
Why is Babylon Judged?
Heaven says,
Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds; in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her. To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as a queen and I am not a widow, and will never see mourning.’ For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.
(Rev. 18:8-9)
Why should God bless America?
We forgot that he exists;
And has turned her back on everything
That has made her what she is.
Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from His hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sins and heal our land.
crmann wrote:“Lady Liberty” as she is called, on the shores of the Empire State, has come to be associated with freedom and opportunity for riches. Those two core values have been elevated as the greatest of American values.
Interestingly, when she was being set up on our shores over a hundred years ago, a number of Protestant ministers and evangelical Christians protested that it was wrong to be setting up a female idol on our shores since they considered us a Christian nation. Their protests were ignored.
God wrote:Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD,
the people he chose for his inheritance.
crmann, that is a very good point. The statue is certainly not something that should be worshipped. The second commandment of the decalogue forbids creating a graven image and bowing down in worship to it. However, the symbols that it represent are clearly pointing to God. I don't know... do you think that the intent was to cause people to look in awe at the structure or the symbolism it represents? Or is there even a difference?
We could be getting off the topic....
Does NYC/USA fulfill this aspect of prophecy about “drunk with the blood of the saints?”
good4u wrote:The one area which I do also disagree, as one poster has pointed out, is that the "Beast" is not Islamic, tho' I believe they are heavily involved as allies, but is the Revived Roman Empire which Herb has so astutely documented.
Gotta go...be back soon. :)
good4u wrote:I think we may be splitting hairs (as prophecy students tend to be), and it is true that some modern Islamic countries were indeed part of the old Roman Empire. The ENP certainly reveals that is the case, but the Islamic countries are certainly not the head of the beast, do you not agree?
I am talking about who calls the shots in the beastly empire, it will not be the Islamic countries as prophecy states.
Tho' I do point out that the Islamic countries are deeply involved in that there is no doubt which I am sure the opposition would agree. Tho' I yet am to understand how NYC will spill "the blood of the prophets" unless Elijah and Moses decide to visit NYC somehow! LOL
I admit not everything has been revealed and I simply do not know. But it will be crystal clear if we are to live it and IF things start to come to pass.
qb0987 wrote:good4u wrote:I think we may be splitting hairs (as prophecy students tend to be), and it is true that some modern Islamic countries were indeed part of the old Roman Empire. The ENP certainly reveals that is the case, but the Islamic countries are certainly not the head of the beast, do you not agree?qb0987 wrote:[No. I find it strange that you assume everyone agrees that it is NOT the Islamic Empire (Caliphate). There are many who do NOT believe that the RRE is the beast or that the AC will arise from there.
I assume nothing, if you believe there will be an Islamic Empire (is that right?) then fine. As for myself, I do not see that POV supported in Scripture. A Roman Empire IS supported in Scripture and that is what I base my POV upon (Daniel, Revelation etc.). However, if you can show me thru out prophetic Scripture of an exact Islamic Empire, I will certainly consider it. Good luck with that.I am talking about who calls the shots in the beastly empire, it will not be the Islamic countries as prophecy states.qb0987 wrote:[Interesting assumption again.
I would call it insightful and challenge you to give it great thought.Tho' I do point out that the Islamic countries are deeply involved in that there is no doubt which I am sure the opposition would agree. Tho' I yet am to understand how NYC will spill "the blood of the prophets" unless Elijah and Moses decide to visit NYC somehow! LOL
I admit not everything has been revealed and I simply do not know. But it will be crystal clear if we are to live it and IF things start to come to pass.
Which is why, we need to keep everything in view and slowly and carefully evaluate all that is happening, especially when we do not have things we have yet to understand. We shouldn't jump too far ahead to the conclusion.
good4u wrote:I assume nothing,
if you believe there will be an Islamic Empire (is that right?) then fine.
As for myself, I do not see that POV supported in Scripture. A Roman Empire IS supported in Scripture and that is what I base my POV upon (Daniel, Revelation etc.). However, if you can show me thru out prophetic Scripture of an exact Islamic Empire, I will certainly consider it. Good luck with that.
I am talking about who calls the shots in the beastly empire, it will not be the Islamic countries as prophecy states.qb0987 wrote:[Interesting assumption again.
I would call it insightful and challenge you to give it great thought.
Which is why, we need to keep everything in view and slowly and carefully evaluate all that is happening, especially when we do not have things we have yet to understand. We shouldn't jump too far ahead to the conclusion.
Just because you may be too litte, too late, doesn't mean the rest of have to be.
If your a newbie to the world of biblical prophecy I understand your skeptism, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to be.
This will happen and unless God stops the prophetic clock for his own sovereign reasons, it will be my generation who sees this happen. It is one of the reasons I follow international politics. Most Christians are not even aware of the ENP or it's twin sister, the financial instrument of the ENP. Nevertheless, the US election and its outcome will be critical in moving events forward, IMO.
Time will tell...as always.
good4u wrote:Prophetic Scripture consistently indicates that AC originates from the north of Israel and not the middle east. If it did, I would agree with you that an Islamic Empire would be plausible. But I just can't prove that in Scripture because it is NOT THERE.
Return to Prophecy Debate Area
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
”