Acts 2:17 in application

Events indicative of the end-times which may, or may not, be related to a specific Scripture.

Acts 2:17 in application

Postby JR on Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:38 am

Acts 2:17'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;


So what does this mean to you? How would you see this being manifested?

What if the guy next door started to share his vision with you? Presuming he had no conflict with scripture, so no easy answer whether he was real or not. Would you believe him?

What if you were the poor sap that God gave this vision to? Would your church embrace you or would you be ostracized the next day?

A vision is nothing more then a dream to most people, how do you distinguish between the two? How do you prove you are for real and not a nut case?

How would this be any different then when Christ came to earth and the Pharisees overlooked all of the fulfilled prophecy that applied to Christ?

Just really curious.


:thinking:
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby prewrathpatty on Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:43 am

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:


It's funny you should ask this question because I was pondering this very thing the other day.

I was thinking about how everything seems to be coming to a head (the fullness of time, maybe?) Examples are the worldwide frenzy about global warming, natural diasasters, tv shows talking about the antichrist, the apocalypse, end of the world, witchcraft, sorcery etc. Couple this together the new agers waiting for the enlightened one to come, the muslims waiting for the 12th Iman, and so on and so forth.

I noticed as I was reading this passage that Peter quotes the prophet Joel as saying that he will poor out his spirit "on all flesh". He is talking to the crowd who had gathered around the disciples to hear them speak in each one his own tongue. These were not believers he was talking to. Like God used Balaam's ***, he can use "all flesh" to show signs that the end is coming.

Later in the verse he says "And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit". Here he stipulates that he will poor his Spirit out on them too. SO maybe it's two different groups of people.

Just a thought. I won't stake my savation on it. :grin:

What do you think?
prewrathpatty
 
Posts: 510
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:22 pm

Postby JR on Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:50 am

Ok, I will just entertain myself.

Perhaps you are really skeptical. God has never spoken to you that way, so what makes this guy (guy with visions) so special?

What if he was spiritually your inferior? I know we are all the same in Christ, but some of you have really spent many years studying. Surely God would talk to you, before He would talk to that guy. :wink:

Perhaps the guy getting the visions is not a Billy Graham (insert name of your favorite hero here) type. Perhaps he is more the Billy Bob Gram type. :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

What then?

All right, I need to get to work. I am not getting anything accomplished today.

:angel:
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby JR on Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:57 am

prewrathpatty wrote:Just a thought. I won't stake my savation on it. :grin:


Good thing that can't happen. Our salvation is secure.

Care to answer any of the hypothetical questions above? I am really curious how we would know, assuming the vision does not conflict with scripture.

Herb you out there? (It feels like I am talking to air). Do you care to venture an opinion?

:thinking:
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby MChat on Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:12 pm

One thing is for sure, any true modern day prophets would likely have a message of 'doom and gloom' for the world. We can see how well the Old Testiment Prophets with such a message were recieved. :(
MChat
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 416
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:40 pm

Postby Favoritetopic on Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:04 pm

jjrear...I have to ask...did you have a personal experience???

I have.

I haven't told many people specifically for the reasons or the question asked; is your neighbor crazy or do you listen?

My prophecy was mainly about my own life/future but was an experience I will never forget. The few people I have shared it with...I can never explain it or put words to things. We'll leave it at that. That was 5 years ago and nothing to date has come to pass.

I've heard some of the big ministry teachers say that God either spoke things to their hearts or told them directly (audible) about future events.

Visions? I can't think of anybody off the bat, but who comes to mind is the author of 24 minutes in Hell (not sure of the title) but I believe his was a true visitation to hell.

If you DID have an experience and you want to share, etc. go ahead and IM me. Because God said in the last days prophecies, visions would happen, then they will.
DOH!
Favoritetopic
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:57 pm

Postby JR on Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:11 pm

Favoritetopic wrote:jjrear...I have to ask...did you have a personal experience???

I have.

I haven't told many people specifically for the reasons or the question asked; is your neighbor crazy or do you listen?

My prophecy was mainly about my own life/future but was an experience I will never forget. The few people I have shared it with...I can never explain it or put words to things. We'll leave it at that. That was 5 years ago and nothing to date has come to pass.

I've heard some of the big ministry teachers say that God either spoke things to their hearts or told them directly (audible) about future events.

Visions? I can't think of anybody off the bat, but who comes to mind is the author of 24 minutes in Hell (not sure of the title) but I believe his was a true visitation to hell.

If you DID have an experience and you want to share, etc. go ahead and IM me. Because God said in the last days prophecies, visions would happen, then they will.


:answerthequestion:

Gotta do this one off line. To personal. I will IM you.
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby JR on Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:35 pm

The IM did not work. Check your e-mail, I sent you something but it is held up in my outbox, not sure what that is about.
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby kat on Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:31 pm

Good Topic!! I tell ya what....before I was saved...and way...when I was a teen...late teens early 20's...y'know eons ago...hee...I am 34...lol...I worked in a restaraunt with this kid...he was like two yrs younger...we partied together some...and some how decided we hated each other...we fought physically...at work...whatever...any how...we each ended up going our separate ways...he continuing on his path of self distruction..me on my path of the same...years later...I heard rumors that he had been saved...I could not believe it...I was...of all things JELOUS!!! How dare he be saved...I blew it off...kept on my path of least resistance...nagging at me....tug of the heart...Holy Spirit...Well a few years later...I was out...gee Partying...and this kid's name came up again...and it happened to be one of his co-workers...telling the story of how this kid was saved...it turned out he had a vision...I am not sure what it was...but it was supposed to be something holy...must have been pretty darn AWESOME because it changed this guys life...he became saved...changed everything in his life....well...what do you think my response of the time was? yup....I was jelous. I wanted to know why...I wasn't as bad as he was...why did he get the cool vision...why didn't God ever show himself to me???? WAHH...self pity...wah....boohoo..poor poor me....because that is where I was at the time in my life...unsaved...selfish....it was all about me.
It took me A LONG time...probably after I was saved in fact to understand why....or to not feel jelous...just feel proud of this guy for becoming saved!!! I no longer feel jelous...I feel happy for him...how fortunate he was to experience that....I guess we all experience these things on some level when we take that step...mine is that the hole I felt...that empty hole...is finally gone...and I can cry in joy now...I don't have to be that tough...rough...street person...always looking out for me...I am complete....
So...I guess to get back to the question...if someone told me about a vision...where I am now...I would listen..digest the information...pray...and go from there....The general public though...would probably throw the person in the looney bin.
User avatar
kat
 
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:20 am
Location: Iowa

Postby JR on Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:29 pm

Kat,

This is what I know about the matter, and no I am not a Bible scholar.

First of all, some people need to be reached in a way that is less gentle. Perhaps they are hard headed, call it what you will. We are all chosen for God's purposes. He will get your attention, one way or another. There is the easy way and then there is the 2X4 across the head approach. The vision is more of the 2X4 across the head approach.

Second of all, anytime I hear someone say how they have had a vision or that God spoke to them, I listen carefully to the way they explain the experience. If it is a story about flowers and love and dancing with unicorns, I wait to hear what they want me to buy. Of what I know about the experience, it scares the living @#!% out of you. There is nothing more scary then to be in the presence of the living God and to realize how insignificant you really are. It is not that He has to say it, it is just that every core of your being shouts that He is God and you are so much less. Every shred of defense of ego, pride, self-importance, intellect, power and position is stripped away. You stand naked and without resource at that time. There is no battle, you are stripped to the bone and your own flesh testifies your insignificance.

So, do not be jealous or envious. You have found a path of least resistance, you were not as self-centered and thick headed to require the 2X4 across the head approach.

Hope that helps.


:angel:
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby 7eternity on Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:45 pm

There is nothing more scary then to be in the presence of the living God and to realize how insignificant you really are. It is not that He has to say it, it is just that every core of your being shouts that He is God and you are so much less. Every shred of defense of ego, pride, self-importance, intellect, power and position is stripped away. You stand naked and without resource at that time. There is no battle, you are stripped to the bone and your own flesh testifies your insignificance.


This description fits the presence of God I thought about just recently, but surely, I have no idea how much scarier it must be once face-to-face with God. Remember how much men trembled everytime God manifested in the Bible? .. Scary...
"Love always protects, always trusts, always hopes, alway perseveres. Love never fails."
7eternity
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:00 pm
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Postby kat on Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:51 am

:a3: I guess...to clarify...I am not sure at the time if it was all about the person seeing what he saw...or that I was jelous that he found God and I was still lost....probably both....also that internal longing for home....and just...WOW....to have seen God....you are right though...I probably would have hid....and cried...or passed out in fright like the guards at Jesus' tomb....I also think that his experience...and hearing about it...kind of woke me up in a way that made me know...shoot if this kid is good in the eyes of the Lord...I have a shot at this! LOL...my experience when I was lost though was seeing the demons...that is scary too....not in the same way though...more creepy go away scary...than HOLY @$%^ scary....And to find out that all I had to do was ask God to make them go away...How easy was that???!!!
I would love to hear any of your testamonies!!! How AWESOME is our God!!!
User avatar
kat
 
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:20 am
Location: Iowa

Postby Exit40 on Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:18 am

There is nothing more scary then to be in the presence of the living God


Vey interesting, JJ

God Bless

David
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
User avatar
Exit40
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 9149
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:46 am

Postby DallasMinistries on Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:37 am

'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;


I personally believe this is a great rebuttal to anyone who claims that God is unmerciful because He would subject someone to damnation who had never heard the Gospel of Christ (we've all heard the argument: "What about someone in the wilderness who's never read the Bible or heard about Jesus?"). I believe that if someone is willing to accept God, He places the knowledge of His plan in their heart, whether by learning about it from someone else, or simply a dream or vision.

And yes, I feel that I have had very significant dreams/visions that had life-changing results. My wife has them as well.

Just my :2cents:
User avatar
DallasMinistries
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:57 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Postby JR on Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:12 am

kat wrote::a3: I guess...to clarify...I am not sure at the time if it was all about the person seeing what he saw...or that I was jelous that he found God and I was still lost....probably both....also that internal longing for home....and just...WOW....to have seen God....you are right though...I probably would have hid....and cried...or passed out in fright like the guards at Jesus' tomb....I also think that his experience...and hearing about it...kind of woke me up in a way that made me know...shoot if this kid is good in the eyes of the Lord...I have a shot at this! LOL...my experience when I was lost though was seeing the demons...that is scary too....not in the same way though...more creepy go away scary...than HOLY @$%^ scary....And to find out that all I had to do was ask God to make them go away...How easy was that???!!!
I would love to hear any of your testamonies!!! How AWESOME is our God!!!


Kat,

I find it interesting that just the knowledge, that your enemy had a vision, was used to bring you to Christ. Now that gives me something to think about.

I do not know of anyone that has actually seen God, the word I used was His presence. Big difference, probably less scary, but more than I want to deal with scary, just the same.

I want to have answers to the above questions, before I go any further. If I get excommunicated from the board, I want to know why. I also want to know how I am suppose to handle unwanted information. I am a programmer by training. I deal in logic and order. My spiritual gifts are in administration and leadership. I have not figured out a way of dealing with this issue and I am sincerely looking here for advice.

Also, I have no intent of proselytizing here. I own my own business. I have employees and most of my biggest headaches are connected to employees. I don't need anymore headaches. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but if you owned your own business you would know what I mean. I have my hands filled as it is.

:answerthequestion:

Thanks for your interest Kat, but I will wait on a few more admins / mods to answer the above questions, before I go any further. I am sure you understand my caution.

I have to catch a plane to Denver, so I will be out of the loop for a few days. Business and pleasure. It is my 27th wedding anniversary today, so my wife is going with me. Demo tomorrow and white water rafting on Sunday. I might not be in a pew, but I am likely to be praying just the same.

Have a great weekend.

:angel:
Last edited by JR on Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby Favoritetopic on Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:19 am

jjrear...very well explained - even though I stated my experience is unexplainable A LOT of the emotions and thoughts are head on.

After my experience I thought about it day and night (analized it) for about 3 months. Insanity crossed my mind more than once, but I believe that was part of the spiritual battle I was in at the time. Satan would have LOVED had I believed I was crazy. After all...God spoke to me, how insain does that sound???

Years later, I don't feel better or more special than ANY Christian or person, to hit on what Kat wrote. God is certainly not a respector of persons, and everything He does has a purpose. I believe that experience has help me to focus on what God has in mind for my life.

On a good note, I did share this with a guy I dated. He wasn't quite 'there' yet in his walk. He did feel a little less special. He went on a men's retreat, and while there he asked God why He didn't give him a special experience. He looked up, and right then a bright shooting star crossed the sky. To my friend, he knew in his heart God did that for him! Small, but so significant. He's been a believer since.

God is involved in the details of our lives, He has throughout time given his kids visions, dreams, and spoken to us thorough audible voice or using various means. So to answer the question - I'm Spirit filled and would trust God to let me know if somebody's experience were from God or made up. If they start talking about Unicorns...well...
DOH!
Favoritetopic
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:57 pm

Postby Favoritetopic on Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:25 am

P.S. jjrear...HAPPY ANIVERSARY!

Hope you had fun white water rafting - the one time I did it I did not!!! TOO SCARY...but not as bad as being in God's manifested presence :lol:

What better place to pray than in the beautiful outdoors.

Have a wonderful weekend all! God's blessings to you.
DOH!
Favoritetopic
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:57 pm

Postby JR on Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:38 am

Favoritetopic wrote:jjrear...very well explained - even though I stated my experience is unexplainable A LOT of the emotions and thoughts are head on.

After my experience I thought about it day and night (analized it) for about 3 months. Insanity crossed my mind more than once, but I believe that was part of the spiritual battle I was in at the time. Satan would have LOVED had I believed I was crazy. After all...God spoke to me, how insain does that sound???


Here is a definition of being on the verge of insanity. You begin to think about yourself in third person.

It is like your spirit is saying, hold on buckaroo, you are losing it here. Let's just step back a minute and see what that poor sap is going through. Oh, sorry about that, that is you. Never mind, what is he feeling and have you known him to be sane before? Does that sound familiar?

Thanks for the well wishes.

:angel:
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby kat on Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:37 pm

Cut my reply out....posted it in haste and anger....I am not replying......I hope you find what ever answer you are searching for. God Bless.
User avatar
kat
 
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:20 am
Location: Iowa

Postby lesjay on Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:59 am

jjrear, you may have had a vision, or a "flash" as some people call it without realizing it. The most important thing to remember is that if you are unsure of something that may be a vision, ask God for confirmation. If it is from the Lord, God will confirm somehow thru another person, or some other way. Do you remember when Gideon asked the Lord that if he was really hearing the voice of the Lord to give him a sign?
User avatar
lesjay
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 422
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:36 pm
Location: my living room

Postby JR on Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:00 am

kat wrote:Cut my reply out....posted it in haste and anger....I am not replying......I hope you find what ever answer you are searching for. God Bless.


I hope there was nothing I said that angered you. I reread my posts and could not find anything.

I am still waiting on input from the admin / mods. Still no answers to the above questions.

:answerthequestion:
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby JR on Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:21 am

lesjay wrote:jjrear, you may have had a vision, or a "flash" as some people call it without realizing it. The most important thing to remember is that if you are unsure of something that may be a vision, ask God for confirmation. If it is from the Lord, God will confirm somehow thru another person, or some other way. Do you remember when Gideon asked the Lord that if he was really hearing the voice of the Lord to give him a sign?


Lesjay,

I am certain of the interpretation of both visions. The interpretation was clear to me, as soon as I woke up.

The first one happened in 1986 and was fulfilled in 1993. It was a personal warning to me, regarding my son. Most people do not have much of an issue with the telling of that vision. It had a happy ending and the fruit it bore is hard to ignore.

The second vision happened in 2001. The content of this vision is more in line with this web site. I am hesitant to share it, but I am not sure what to do about it. I have only shared it with 13 people since then. I sent a redacted copy to Herb, but no answers from him. He is the only person that I have ever given a copy to, other than my pastor. I am happy to put Herb in contact with my pastor, as a form of character witness.

The events of the second vision have not come true yet. I have not yet expected them to, since it was clear that I was much older when they were to be fulfilled. Part of my hesitation is that I know I have had some time. That time is now 5 years shorter and I am beginning to feel the clock tick.

Perhaps the admin / mods are waiting to cast judgment. I believe I have conducted myself in a worthy manner, since joining this board, but they might be skeptical. I have also given Herb my phone number, so he can talk to me directly.

:answerthequestion:

I am just wanting some answers and trying to figure out what to do. This seemed to be the right place to seek answers, but perhaps you have to ask the right questions.

:angel:
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby Salty Skipper on Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:38 am

Hello, JJ...

Perhaps the admin / mods are waiting to cast judgment. I believe I have conducted myself in a worthy manner, since joining this board, but they might be skeptical. I have also given Herb my phone number, so he can talk to me directly.


I don't think anyone here is lying in wait to pounce on you. :grin: Honestly, this is the first time that I have noticed this thread. Sometimes when you are a mod or admin, you have to scan through so many different threads, that sometimes questions posed to us get accidentally overlooked.

If you are looking for specific answers from administrators or mods, please don't hesistate to send us a pm. We are always here to help in any way we can. None of us have all the answers, but we are willing to do our best.

Thanks for posting at FP! :grin:

Salty
User avatar
Salty Skipper
MODERATOR
 
Posts: 18958
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:56 pm

Postby Salty Skipper on Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:42 am

Oh, by the way, JJ...I have had visions and dreams. They have never literally come true, but have been symbolic in nature. When I have had them, there was no doubt in my mind that they were from the Lord. They were confirmations for me, or offered a glimpse of things that I was or am to look for. Hope this helps.

Salty
User avatar
Salty Skipper
MODERATOR
 
Posts: 18958
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:56 pm

Postby JR on Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:56 am

Salty Skipper wrote:
Perhaps the admin / mods are waiting to cast judgment. I believe I have conducted myself in a worthy manner, since joining this board, but they might be skeptical. I have also given Herb my phone number, so he can talk to me directly.


I don't think anyone here is lying in wait to pounce on you. Honestly, this is the first time that I have noticed this thread. Sometimes when you are a mod or admin, you have to scan through so many different threads, that sometimes questions posed to us get accidentally overlooked.

If you are looking for specific answers from administrators or mods, please don't hesistate to send us a pm. We are always here to help in any way we can. None of us have all the answers, but we are willing to do our best.

Thanks for posting at FP!

Salty


Ok, I will send it to the ones I have met. I sent this message to Salty, Herb, Be Still, Water & Andcanitbe.

Acts 2:17'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;


So what does this mean to you? How would you see this being manifested?

What if the guy next door started to share his vision with you? Presuming he had no conflict with scripture, so no easy answer whether he was real or not. Would you believe him?

What if you were the poor sap that God gave this vision to? Would your church embrace you or would you be ostracized the next day?

A vision is nothing more then a dream to most people, how do you distinguish between the two? How do you prove you are for real and not a nut case?

How would this be any different then when Christ came to earth and the Pharisees overlooked all of the fulfilled prophecy that applied to Christ?

Just really curious.


:thinking:
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby BeTheMoon on Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:09 am

So what does this mean to you? How would you see this being manifested?


The answer's in the scripture, I don't think there's room for interpretation since it's pretty direct.

Acts 2:17
'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;



Have you had a dream/vision that you want to share?
:dunno:
Image
User avatar
BeTheMoon
SITE ADMIN
 
Posts: 16638
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:04 pm

Postby C-YA on Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:39 am

JJ

So what does this mean to you? How would you see this being manifested?

It would be manifested simply when God gave you a divine vision. It would be at His discretion, and upon His timing

What if the guy next door started to share his vision with you? Presuming he had no conflict with scripture, so no easy answer whether he was real or not. Would you believe him?

Believing him would depend on who he was. I would need to "know" him in the sense of his fruit, and lifestyle. Believing him would also depend on if it was "bearing witness" with my spirit as well.

What if you were the poor sap that God gave this vision to? Would your church embrace you or would you be ostracized the next day?


If it was me, my church would accept it and would not "ostracize" me. The reason is because i am faithful to my church. not perfect but faithful. i work and serve around my church. i am not just a guy that walks in off the street who's life is in disarray and gives some vision from left field and expects everyone to fall down and obey.

A vision is nothing more then a dream to most people, how do you distinguish between the two? How do you prove you are for real and not a nut case?

the distinguishing factor/difference is that the acts 2:17 is divine/from God. You prove YOU are real by living it everyday, and being part of the body on a consistent basis. The word tells us we are known by our fruit. The vision is proved real, by God Himself. He confirms His word with signs following.

How would this be any different then when Christ came to earth and the Pharisees overlooked all of the fulfilled prophecy that applied to Christ?

I do not fully understand this question to answer it.

Just really curious.
[/b]
C-YA
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:26 am

Postby JR on Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:55 am

bethemoon wrote:
So what does this mean to you? How would you see this being manifested?


The answer's in the scripture, I don't think there's room for interpretation since it's pretty direct.

Acts 2:17
'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;



Have you had a dream/vision that you want to share?
:dunno:


Want to? I am not sure about that. Should? That is where He will get me. If I believe I should do it, then I am likely to do it. I know that sounds weird. Not that I always, or even frequently do, what I should do, but when I sense I am being led, I will follow obediently.

Perhaps I am looking for an easy out here. You guys say that it would be upsetting, divisive, heretical, then I don't have to do it. Perhaps I am looking for you to be my fleece.

Dunno? Your icon said it all. I am trying to decide just that. I have a few responses to go through and will decide what I should do then.

:angel:
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby JR on Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:14 pm

C-YA wrote:JJ


How would this be any different then when Christ came to earth and the Pharisees overlooked all of the fulfilled prophecy that applied to Christ?

I do not fully understand this question to answer it.


C-Ya,

Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer those questions.

Regarding the above last question. The Pharisees did not recognize the signs that confirmed that Christ was the Messiah. His life and death fulfilled many of the prophetical writings, and yet they did not see it. Partly, they did not want to see it.

So my question is this, if your neighbor started to have visions, and the church universal did not get it either, would we not be making the same mistake as the Pharisees made at Christ's first appearing? I have met more than a few christians that resemble pharisees in more ways, then one. I am just wondering if some in the church would be any more receptive then the Pharisees were.

I am still deciding here. You gave me a lot to digest. I would say that my walk would not stand up to severe scrutiny. God knew what he was doing, so perhaps He has given an easy way for people to discount my vision.

Don't misunderstand me, I go to Church regularly, have been involved in various ministries and faithfully tithe. That said, I am sure a good number of my brothers and sisters, on this board, would fine A LOT wrong with some of the other things I do. So, that is a bit of a quandary I have placed myself in.

:angel:
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby water on Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:44 pm

I PM'd this reply to jjrear, but he asked if I would post it here, so here it is:

jjrear wrote:
Ok, I will send it to the ones I have met. My questions are below, please answer them, if you would.

Quote:
Acts 2:17'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;


So what does this mean to you? How would you see this being manifested?

What if the guy next door started to share his vision with you? Presuming he had no conflict with scripture, so no easy answer whether he was real or not. Would you believe him?

What if you were the poor sap that God gave this vision to? Would your church embrace you or would you be ostracized the next day?

A vision is nothing more then a dream to most people, how do you distinguish between the two? How do you prove you are for real and not a nut case?

How would this be any different then when Christ came to earth and the Pharisees overlooked all of the fulfilled prophecy that applied to Christ?

Just really curious.






First of all, I would like to say that being a mod or admin doesn't necessarily mean we are Bible scholars as well. Each of us varies quite a bit in our understanding. Mods are chosen based on how they treat people, not how well versed in the Bible they are.

With that said, you have my disclaimer. I am no Bible scholar, but I do love Jesus and I believe 100% that if we pray for wisdom and understanding, the Lord will grant it in his timing.

I believe what those verses say will happen...will happen. I don't put boxes on the Lord but I know sometimes the meaning of scripture is hidden from us for a time, as in Luke 24:45 "Then he opened their minds to understand these many Scriptures."

Another thing to keep in mind is that some prophecies are fulfilled more than once through history. An example of this is the destruction and rebuilding of the temple...the next temple will be the third.

And then we need to remember one more thing, the last days are relative to the prophet who spoke/wrote the words. If you look at the verses before those you are wanting to understand, we see it says the following:

14Then Peter stepped forward with the eleven other apostles and shouted to the crowd, "Listen carefully, all of you, fellow Jews and residents of Jerusalem! Make no mistake about this. 15Some of you are saying these people are drunk. It isn't true! It's much too early for that. People don't get drunk by nine o'clock in the morning. 16No, what you see this morning was predicted centuries ago by the prophet Joel:


17
`In the last days, God said,
I will pour out my Spirit upon all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
and your old men will dream dreams.

18
In those days I will pour out my Spirit
upon all my servants, men and women alike,
and they will prophesy.

19
And I will cause wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below--
blood and fire and clouds of smoke.

20
The sun will be turned into darkness,
and the moon will turn bloodred,
before that great and glorious day of the Lord arrives.

21
And anyone who calls on the name of the Lord
will be saved.'[c]



We can see that these prophecies do apply to more than one time in history because Peter says those people were seeing it fulfilled that day. The time in which the prophecies are fulfilled are also relative to the prophet who gave them. Today we don't think of 50 A.D. as being the last days, but they are the last days compared to when Joel lived.

One more thing to know is that the Lord does give visions to those who we would not consider to be saved. We know this because of Nebuchadnezzars dream in Daniel 2.

So now let's look at your specific questions:

Q: So what does this mean to you? How would you see this being manifested?

A: I would see them beinf fulfilled exactly as stated.

Q: What if the guy next door started to share his vision with you? Presuming he had no conflict with scripture, so no easy answer whether he was real or not. Would you believe him?

A: It is not a matter of believing him or not. It is a matter of taking what he said to the Lord in prayer and asking for understanding and guidance. Perhaps the vision does not directly apply to me. Perhaps the vision was given to the neighbor in the same way Nebuchadnezzar received his dream, so that a believer might interpret it and therefore be a sign/miracle for him/her. Remember, we are to be wise as serpants and peaceful as doves. Just because something agrees with scripture does not mean that God actually gave the vision...the person could be making it up. One has to ask what is the purpose of the vision and what is the purpose of sharing it with you. Be wise and loving.

Q: What if you were the poor sap that God gave this vision to? Would your church embrace you or would you be ostracized the next day?

A: Again, this depends on the purpose of the vision. I have had several visions since I was saved in 1998, all of which were to help me understand something...a vision that imparted some wisdom of God. I am reminded of Noah though. Did God use visions with Noah or was he more direct? What if the Lord told you to dig a 25 story underground bunker? LOL...our walk with the Lord is on a narrow path. We live by faith and his Word.

Q: A vision is nothing more then a dream to most people, how do you distinguish between the two? How do you prove you are for real and not a nut case?

A: If you have had a vision from the Lord, I believe there is an amount of faith to be excercised. Let me give you a real example. Shortly after I was saved I was in a worship service and had a vision. Now I don't recall today what I was praying about 8 years ago when it took place, but here is the vision: I saw a huge, immensely powerful, and extremely beautiful black stallion...a monstrous horse. It was just so beautiful and completely black. The black color had nothing to do with evil, it was just the awesome color of this magnificent horse. But the horse had a gold ring in its nose like the rings you see in the noses of bulls.

The meaning behind the vision was a revelation from God, a bit of wisdom from him in a way that I could easily understand that perfectly illustrated our true nature once we are saved.

See, this amazing stallion was a vision of us after we are saved. We are an amazing creation, mingled with the Spirit of God, that is Jesus that lives in us. There is no rope or chain that can hold us, we are simply too powerful and swift, a being of amazing beauty and power, in our Lord and our Lord in us. But that gold ring, which is punched through the noses of bulls so that herdsmen can lead them around wherever they wish, is what continuing in sin does to this awesome stallion.

Rings are not made for the noses of stallions, they are made for the noses of bulls. So as new creations in Christ, when we continue in unrepentant sin, we allow this completely unnatural gold ring to be punched through our noses and we are lead around by Satan. The scriptures say in Romans 6:16 "Don't you realize that whatever you choose to obey becomes your master?"

In this vision the Lord was showing me how unnatural it was for a new creation of Christ to be lead by the nose in sin, yet it happens when we choose poorly and fail to turn back to Jesus (run from the sin).

So there you have one of my visions. I could write it off as a dream I guess, but I chose in faith to believe that vision imparted wisdom in such a way that my natural mind was not capable of generating.

Now that was just one vision and it seems to be a pretty mild vision when you read things like Revelation, but it was wisdom from God none the less.

How does one know the difference? I supposed the easiest answer I can give is that if the vision imparts wisdom or knowledge in such a way that you know it did not come from your mind, it agrees with scripture, and it does not tell you to do something that is contrary to God's law, then I would count it as a vision from God.

Q: How would this be any different then when Christ came to earth and the Pharisees overlooked all of the fulfilled prophecy that applied to Christ?

A: Faith in God is a choice, not a natural result of circumstances. I can say this is true because so many people saw Jesus perform miracles, yet only some *chose* to believe God. Not believing God is a choice as well, despite what atheists will tell you (they are bound by man's wisdom, which God says is foolishness compared to God's wisdom).

In fact, we can see the same thing in action today. Just as Jesus fulfilled many of God's prophecies, so is Israel today fulfilling many of God's prophecies. Israel is a nation today. Israel is flourishing (despite the evil forces against it...Israel is the world's 3rd largest producer of fruit). The Jews are coming back to Israel from nations all over the world after many, many generations of exile.

The entire world can see these prophecies being fulfilled, yet only some of us recognize them **because we CHOOSE to believe** God.

None of us knows when the Lord will return, but we know that the prophecies he gave us about the end times are being fulfilled at an amazing rate, therefore we can count on what he said to be true...that the generation that saw these things would not pass away before his return. Jesus was talking about us...you...me...my wife. These are exciting times.



Well, I hope I answered your questions. Let me know if I missed anything.
Now is the time to be the Sons of Issachar - 1 Chronicles 12:32

My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20
_________________
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.
:sohumble: Image :sohumble:
User avatar
water
 
Posts: 5222
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:50 am

Postby JR on Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:14 pm

Thank you all. I want to say more then a few of you have been used by God to encourage me to move forward with this. A few of you in ways that you probably do not realize.

Kat, you showed me that the power of a vision, is not necessarily limited to the one receiving it. You were encouraged to accept Christ, by a vision you did not have.

C-Ya, you have given me a course to follow. I will layout my history, so that you will get to know me, and therefore be in an informed position to understand and decide.

Water, you encouraged me by letting me know that I am not an isolated freak. Your vision you shared, is a similar form to my first vision. It was about my son's future mostly. My second vision is more about seeing my future as it relates to end times.

Something many of you said seemed to cinch it for me. I will trust the Spirit will lead you, just as I am trusting that the Spirit will lead me. I will share these visions and I will try to do it in a way that allows you to understand the circumstances I was in at the time and to give some evidence of the fruit that was born.

Allow me to make this perfectly clear. I do not want anything from any of you. I would appreciate your input, wisdom and feed back. It would be encouraging to know if what I share has helped you in some way, but I want nothing else from you.

My visions have confirmed what will happen, you do what you want with this info.

This will take time. I will post them here in the Signs area, unless you want it some where else.

Thank you all once again.

:angel:
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby water on Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:20 pm

This is a great forum for visions to be shared. I am excited to hear what you have to say.
Now is the time to be the Sons of Issachar - 1 Chronicles 12:32

My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20
_________________
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.
:sohumble: Image :sohumble:
User avatar
water
 
Posts: 5222
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:50 am

Postby water on Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:23 pm

I also wanted to say that the visions I have had from the Lord are not a one-shot deal, not that it will be the same for others.

What I mean is that the visions I have had are first given in an overview form. They are kind of like a picture or book, the longer I look at them and consider them, the more information I find in them.
Now is the time to be the Sons of Issachar - 1 Chronicles 12:32

My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20
_________________
Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.
:sohumble: Image :sohumble:
User avatar
water
 
Posts: 5222
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:50 am

Postby Favoritetopic on Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:29 pm

YAY!!! I can HARDLY WAIT JJREAR!!! I posted something here earler today but it looks like it didn't go through. It was basically some ol' fashioned begging to please post if you thought the Lord would want you to share it!!! I noted what you posted said it was 5 years ago and the clock was ticking - that sounds like something that should be shared!!!

If I remember correctly, I think I noted that it is the judgement of people we fear, and that is something that I don't see ending, that is just human nature.

I won't judge - I'll read it and see what God speaks to my heart as an individual.

SO EXCITED TO READ!

Again, I can share my prophecy in detail but I think I've put the jist of it out there and mine really won't do anybody else any good as it was about my life.

This should be good stuff!!! I just LOVE that God is so involved in our lives!!! Exciting!!!
DOH!
Favoritetopic
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:57 pm

Postby Favoritetopic on Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:32 pm

P.S.

I went to Vegas two weeks ago and got loaded...

I think we are all humans and if we look to the people in the Bible, so are they.

I have never murdered anybody (yet...)

LOL! Hope this makes you feel better about your 'I'm not Perfect' walk jjrear. I don't think any of us are. I don't want to put sin in a light-hearted category, because it is not, but we all have our struggles.

In my past life, I partied like a rock-star. Love to drink and have a great time...so I still struggle for the balance.

God's Spirit has never left me....
DOH!
Favoritetopic
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:57 pm

Postby JR on Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:07 pm

Favoritetopic wrote:I think we are all humans and if we look to the people in the Bible, so are they.

I have never murdered anybody (yet...)


For me I draw the line at leading others into sin. I know it is all sin, I just rationalize it that way. I am wrong for it and I find that when I am busy in service, I am less likely to sin.

The last few years, while sitting on this vision, has been very frustrating to me. I feel like I am spinning my wheels. Perhaps what I am sharing will put things in motion. I am really sticking my neck out here and I am sure I will get smacked down some way for it.

A lesson that I have learned in life is this. No good deed goes unpunished. I am not sure what it is going to be, but I am sure I am going to get hammered for this anyway. Time will tell. It is all out there for everyone to read.

Here is all of it in order.


Why am I doing this?

How I got here.

Fruit bearing

The second vision

What I am pointing to?


:angel:
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am

Postby kat on Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:45 pm

Well Jrear....I must say I owe you an appology....honestly...I hadn't posted on this thread because I misunderstood what you had posted...not important...thought you were being a jerk....and you weren't....just me being overly sensitive and reading wrong...OR....PMSing....lol


As for visions etc....like I said in the IM...let the Lord lead you...I personally don't believe in date setting...but I totally believe in the power of God...I have had more "visions" and odd things happen over my lifetime...you'd think I would have paid attention sooner...it is funny how God doesn't give up on us...He just keeps sending a message to us...LOUDER each time....I have been miserable and crying with a friend in our kitchen...wondering if there is a god...only to have the computer in the next room come on and print a story about belief in God....talk about goose bumps and do you think I let that sink in...???? UH..no. At the time it was cool to me...like WoW yeah okay...there is a god....but didn't mean a lot...it took YEARS!!!!!! In fact...I am a baby newborn...only a year old..hee...was VERY close to God as a child....life happened...my life sucked...bad cards...wah...poor me....and I somewhere lost that relationship...and struggled over the years to get it back but felt that hole...Anyway...I am SOOOO OFF POINT!!!!
What I am getting at....I believe very much that God has sent me gifts of seeing my mom after she died....I believe God gave that vision to that kid I hated...because he knows me so darn well that I would pay more attention to Shane being saved than myself having a miraculous vision...I believe that WE are going to be given more visions as the days get shorter...and unfortunately...I believe our visions and testimonies of these visions will be fuel for those who hate us...and they will set us up...and we will be martyred because of them....BUT....I also believe...that if JUST ONE lost soul is saved because of your visions....Then it will all be worth it. In Christs Love, Kate
User avatar
kat
 
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:20 am
Location: Iowa

Postby Favoritetopic on Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:24 pm

KAT - that PMSing thing we have to deal with is a DOOZY! I can totally relate, hope it's over!!!

At first I misread what jjrear had posted and thought he was telling me I was crazy, then re-read and realized he was giving a defenition...LOL!!!

Have you ever tried the natural cream, it's called Progest or something like that. Hi Health carries it.

It's made out of soybeans, yams and a few other natural things. Don't ask me how, but it works - I still have my bad months...

I experience extreme PMS, have gone to a doctor about it. Can't wait till menopause!!! LOL.

sorry all you guys out there having to read this; maybe it'll help you if your wife suffers from hormone issue, a real problem in our world and with the pollution and chemical imbalances in the body, it will just keep getting worse I believe!
DOH!
Favoritetopic
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:57 pm

Postby AndCanItBe on Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:28 pm

Should we start a section for just us girls?? :wink:
User avatar
AndCanItBe
MODERATOR
 
Posts: 18647
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:24 am

Postby kat on Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:58 pm

OK>>> I am now laughing MY toosh off...FavoriteTopic...I didn't know you were a she....HA!!!! NO real pmsing here....menopause at 34...well started at 27-28....NOT FUNNY!!!!!

I think I read jjrear's post as telling me that I was not answering his question....and he was waiting for someone who knew what he was talking about to answer the question....WOAH.....So I totally let the IRISH ancestry take over....and I gave him a peice of my mind....and then....Probably God...spoke to my heart and said...KATE....This is exactly what we are working on....temper...reacting....before thinking....
So I deleted my post and re answered in what I had hoped was nicer...cuz I can be a bit of a ......what's the good word....Brat....Boy...Talk about having a LOOOOONG way to go....Good thing the Lord knows all of our hearts....
Sorry again jjrear....NOt trying to hijack your post...I am done now with my girly stuff... :bag:
User avatar
kat
 
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:20 am
Location: Iowa

Postby JR on Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:08 pm

kat wrote:OK>>> I am now laughing MY toosh off...FavoriteTopic...I didn't know you were a she....HA!!!! NO real pmsing here....menopause at 34...well started at 27-28....NOT FUNNY!!!!!

I think I read jjrear's post as telling me that I was not answering his question....and he was waiting for someone who knew what he was talking about to answer the question....WOAH.....So I totally let the IRISH ancestry take over....and I gave him a peice of my mind....and then....Probably God...spoke to my heart and said...KATE....This is exactly what we are working on....temper...reacting....before thinking....
So I deleted my post and re answered in what I had hoped was nicer...cuz I can be a bit of a ......what's the good word....Brat....Boy...Talk about having a LOOOOONG way to go....Good thing the Lord knows all of our hearts....
Sorry again jjrear....NOt trying to hijack your post...I am done now with my girly stuff... :bag:


Kat,

As God would have it. I never saw your original post.

No harm, no foul. It is really pretty neat that God is constantly working on our behalf, even when we don't ask him to.

In fact, I gave you credit for encouraging me. See the above post.

Kat, you showed me that the power of a vision, is not necessarily limited to the one receiving it. You were encouraged to accept Christ, by a vision you did not have.


:angel: :itsgood:
User avatar
JR
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:00 am


Return to SIGNS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests