Turkey

(heavily moderated)

Turkey

Postby njfish17 on Fri May 14, 2004 3:04 am

Most everyone here knows by now that I am leaning towards Turkey or Iraq for the Antichrist.<br>
<br>
So in that regards I will post stuff on Turkey here whenever I see something interesting.<br>
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As pointed out previously I find it interesting that Turkey elects its President for 7 year terms.<br>
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I also found this interesting:<br>
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"Prime Minister Erdogan said the test for the EU in December would be more meaningful than Turkey's, ''if the EU fails to reach a conclusion in line with our wishes, Turkey will not have difficulty in finding a new course with the potential it has.'' "<br>
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<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=19769">www.turkishpress.com/turk...p?ID=19769</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
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I also find it interesting that Turkey has Nato's second largest standing army---2nd to the U.S. that is<br>
<br>


<p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

EU preaccession

Postby slk2295 on Fri May 14, 2004 9:43 am

Whether the AC comes from Turkey, or if Turkey and other Islamic countries unite against the EU - either way I agree that Turkey is a key country to watch during end times events.<br>
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That said, I didn't realize Turkey had such a large military. I wonder if Solana will create an agreement where Turkey, during it's preaccession stage (2004-2007) will make it's military available in "structured cooperation" to the EU's multinational forces for the common security and defence policy (see Article I-40 and Policy Section 2, Article III-210 to 213 of EU draft constitution).<br>
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Interesting....<br>
Shanna<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p>The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.<br>
Shanna </p><i></i>
slk2295
 

Hey

Postby njfish17 on Fri May 14, 2004 9:49 am

Shanna,<br>
<br>
I am pretty convinced that the Antichrist comes from either Turkey or Iraq.<br>
<br>
I don't think that Turkey will join the EU and this will contribute to the whole rise of the AC and his alliance.<br>
<br>
However, if Turkey does join the EU then maybe the whole EU idea is correct and perhaps Turkey is the 11th horn with its large military. It could be the EU and it could be that the AC is from Turkey.<br>
<br>
Of course there are some major problems with this such as the allies of the AC (Gog) but you never know.<br>
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Make that many problems.<br>
<br>
We shall see, yes we shall definitely see!! <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Turkey

Postby mountainofdew on Mon May 17, 2004 7:06 pm

I lived in Turkey for about a year. Every male must serve in the military...unless the individual is ill or not fit to serve physically. The majority of the soldiers, askerler..., are of this type. Type...meaning that most serve because it's mandatory. Others go to schools to be either non-commissioned or commissioned officers. If one has a college education he may serve as little as 6 months, or with no education I think it's 18 months. Women are now being allowed to serve as non-commissioned officers, and as officers...though not as enlisted. In the Turkish military a soldier cannot advance beyond enlisted if he is enlisted, the same goes for non-commissioned, and for officers. Also important. The Turkish military provides the balance of power. Meaning that they, the military, takes control if something goes wrong within the government. It's an interesting culture with Islamic, and Western influences. <br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
mountainofdew
 

Hey

Postby njfish17 on Tue May 18, 2004 4:01 am

Turkey edges toward EU goal<br>
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<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3723301.stm">news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3723301.stm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
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If Turkey is accepted into the EU then what does this mean?<br>
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I don't see it happening; however, if it does then perhaps the AC comes from Turkey (as I believe) and this is why there is not much opposition from the west (europe and US). <br>
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I think it is more likely that Turkey will be rejected by the EU and this will lead to the rise of a covenant with many from Turkey in order to develop there own alliance since they were rejected by the EU.<br>
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When they attack Israel, most of the EU will sit idle since they are pretty anti-semitic themselves.<br>
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The US will probably have somebody in office such as Kerry and will therefore definitely not get involved with another war after this Iraq thing. Plus considering all the trouble we are haveing with Iraq it would be a difficult war with Turkey and all the allies. So we will also be pretty idle.<br>
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Then Jesus destroys much of the AC's army at the arrival of the Day of the Lord which leads to the gathering of the nations of the world at Armaggedon. <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

dan 11

Postby jdoamo123 on Thu May 20, 2004 4:24 pm

njfish,<br>
<br>
I also believe that the AC will come out of Iraq. I do have one question for you though... Do you believe that Dan 11 has already been fulfilled literally? I personally believe that it has been partially fulfilled as a foreshadow. If I'm right and it has not been fulfilled yet, it sounds like Dan 11 has a lot to say about the origins of the AC in Turkey or Iraq.<br>
<br>
jdoamo123 <p></p><i></i>
jdoamo123
 

re: Daniel 11

Postby njfish17 on Fri May 21, 2004 2:45 am

Hey jdoamo123,<br>
<br>
I haven't looked at Daniel 11 as in-depth as I plan on but as of right now I think that verses 29-45 are future fulfillment. Maybe not until verse 31 or 33. ???<br>
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No matter where the future fulfillment begins I think most would agree that at least the end of the chapter is for future fulfillment. Given this, we know that it is the king of the north (Antiochus) that "becomes" the Antichrist.<br>
<br>
So it makes sense that the AC would come out of this area:<br>
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"One of them was his friend Seleucus, who became king of the eastern provinces - more or less modern Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, together with parts of Turkey, Armenia, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan."<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.livius.org/se-sg/seleucids/seleucids.html">www.livius.org/se-sg/sele...ucids.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
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I think when everything happens we are going to be blown out of the water when we realize how accurate the Word of God is and how blind we were to not see it.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

charting it out

Postby jdoamo123 on Fri May 21, 2004 5:19 am

I'm still working on a chart on Dan 11:7-45. IF this prophecy is still yet to happen (which I believe) it tells us of the years before the AC enters on the world scene and also shows us what to look for. A few things that seem apparent enough to me is: <br>
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1. the AC will be a tax collector vs 20-21<br>
2. Some part or all of Israel will be under occupation of the king of the South (Egypt) for several years.<br>
3. The king of the north fights the king of the south 3x and loses. The fourth time will be the charm and he will win. vs15<br>
4. After a while a tax collector will be sent out and will be destroyed, though not in anger or battle. The AC takes over his position. This tax collector job will be in Israel. vs 16 & 20<br>
5. The AC will stage a coup in his own country and this is how he will ascend to power. vs 21 (Most likely in S.E. Turkey or N. Iraq (namely Kurdistan)<br>
6. The AC will not obtain world power until the end of his reign - not like the Left Behind series asserts. vs44-45<br>
7. God's wrath actually helps out the AC take world power as the rest of the world will rely upon him during is awful time of wrath. <br>
8. The AC will use the whore (or false religion) to accomplish this task of world domination.<br>
<br>
<br>
This is a lot to digest so I'll stop here. However, as one last note - I don't think that Solana, as Herb would like to think is the AC although he may be setting up circumstances so that the AC will become the future King of the North. Also, these events would take years to accomplish, and would overtake many as a surprise as it would not go according to conventional thinking. I'm still working on the chart. You seem to share much of the same thoughts as I do on many issues, perhaps you'd like to exchange notes?<br>
<br>
jdoamo123 <p></p><i></i>
jdoamo123
 

Hey

Postby njfish17 on Fri May 21, 2004 5:49 am

jdoamo123,<br>
<br>
Most of my thoughts on end times get posted on this discussion board so I really don't have any more notes to exchange.<br>
<br>
I think we agree on the basic area from where the AC will arise.<br>
<br>
I think we disagree on the timing of the rapture as I do not believe the wrath of God will be poured out until the AC has risen to power.<br>
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I think you are posttrib if I remember correctly and I am prewrath which doesn't really affect anything except for your note at the end of Dan. 11.<br>
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I just posted a study on Ezekiel 38-39 (Gog) where I state that I believe Gog is the AC and I think this passage gives us info on the allies of the AC.<br>
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Daniel is quite difficult to determine exactly what is past and what is also a future fulfillment. If we notice the covenant then we may be able to go back to passages like Daniel 11 to see if they help us confirm our suspected identity of the AC. otherwise, i think it would be difficult to know for sure what is future. <br>
<p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Turkey and the EU

Postby mountainofdew on Fri May 21, 2004 5:49 pm

When I was working in Turkey, I spoke with various Europeans. I spoke mostly with Italians, and a Brit. In general the Italians believe that Turkey being part of the EU is a joke. For various reasons. A major reason is that Turkey is a pretty poor country. From those Europeans I spoke to, the consensus is that there will be a mass exodus of Turks into the wealthier European countries...which most of those wealthy countries do not want to see happen. Germany already has a very large Turkish population...and Italy has quite a few also. The point of saying all this...is that I really don't think Turkey will become part of the EU. Sure, Turkey is hopeful that they will be admitted to the EU. Though most, Europeans and Turks from my understanding, really doubt that Turkey will become part of the EU with in the next 10 years. Anyway. This is my opinion based on my very limited knowledge of European and Turkish sentiments. My 2 cents. <p></p><i></i>
mountainofdew
 

Re: charting it out

Postby perigrini on Fri May 21, 2004 5:58 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>1. the AC will be a tax collector vs 20-21<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
Really, let me point out something I read yesterday...<br>
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<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The UK government is set to back Danish leader Anders Fogh Rasmussen to become the next president of the European Commission, according to reports.<br>
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<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.euobserver.com/?sid=9&aid=16188">www.euobserver.com/?sid=9&aid=16188</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
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I googled this guy...<br>
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<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>He has held numerous positions in government and opposition throughout his career, first winning a seat in 1978. From <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>1987-1990 he was Minister for Taxation</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> and from <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>1990-1992 Minister for Economy and Taxation</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> in the Conservative led Poul Schlüter government. He held the rotating presidency of the European Union from July to December 2002 during which he proved his dedication to a pro-EU agenda and the guiding priciples of the Ellemann-Jensen-Doctrine. <br>
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source: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Fogh_Rasmussen">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And..._Rasmussen</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
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I'm not declaring him the AC or anything, but your comment about being a tax collector prompted me to recall what I'd read about him.<br>
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Blessings,<br>
perigrini <p></p><i></i>
perigrini
 

Turkey in EU?

Postby njfish17 on Sun May 23, 2004 12:22 pm

Erdogan warns of Muslim backlash if EU says no<br>
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ANKARA: Rejection of Turkey by the European Union would provoke a backlash in the wider Muslim world and increase the risk of a "clash of civilisations", Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan was quoted as saying on Friday. However, in an interview with the Wall Street Journal, Erdogan also said he was confident EU leaders would agree at a summit in December to open long-delayed entry talks with Turkey.<br>
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"Turkey can no longer be kept waiting at the doorstep... If the EU does not want to be viewed as a union of geography or as a Christian club they have to give us a date," he was quoted as saying. "(If rejected), my people’s ... attitude toward the West will change ... (And the wider Muslim world) will say the West is not ready to integrate with people who do not share the same faith with them."<br>
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Financial markets are watching closely Turkey’s efforts to reform its economy and political system ahead of the December decision.<br>
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European Commission is due to publish a report in October, which will form the basis of the leaders’ verdict.<br>
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Erdogan’s government has won praise from the EU for a recent flurry of human rights reforms, though some member states remain wary of admitting a relatively poor country of 70 million people whose eastern borders extend to Iraq and Iran.<br>
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If the EU does launch talks with Turkey, Erdogan said, the Muslim world "will see that the clash of civilisations is not a reality but that harmony of civilisations is a possibility". The idea of a "clash of civilisations" was promoted in a book by U.S. academic Samuel Huntingdon.<br>
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British Prime Minister Tony Blair, on a lightning visit to Ankara on Monday, stressed the importance of admitting Turkey as a way of easing tensions between the West and the Muslim world. Turkey’s NATO ally the United States also strongly backs Turkish membership of the EU.<br>
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<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://jang.com.pk/thenews/may2004-daily/22-05-2004/world/w8.htm">jang.com.pk/thenews/may20...rld/w8.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Hey

Postby njfish17 on Tue May 25, 2004 2:12 am

Patten: EU Handling of Turkey Crucial to Avert Islam-West Clash <br>
<br>
Speaking at the Oxford Center for Islamic Studies, the EU's External relations Commissioner Chris Patten argued that the correct treatment of Turkey by the EU would help avert the scenario of a "clash of civilizations" between the western and Islamic world - as famously predicted by the political scientist Samuel Huntington in 1993. "We cannot help but be conscious of the symbolism, at this time, of reaching out a hand to a country whose population is overwhelmingly Muslim," Patten said. Underlining the strategic importance of the upcoming Commission report on Turkey, which will be released next autumn, the Commissioner stated: "I look forward to the debate preceding the Commission’s opinion on the matter in the autumn. In making it, we will be conscious that we potentially pave the way for a very different EU – and that should be squarely and honestly confronted." In his speech, the UK commissioner avoided predicting the exact content of the Commission's report, which will evaluate whether Ankara complies with the EU's criteria on human rights and democracy. But he strongly rejected defining the EU as a "Christian" club - which would make it impossible for Turkey as an Islamic country to join. On the basis of the Commission's opinion in the autumn, EU leaders will decide during a summit in December whether or not to start formal accession negotiations with Turkey. (EUobserver.com) <br>
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<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,,1433_A_1213948_1_A,00.html">www.dw-world.de/english/0..._A,00.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

hmmmm

Postby njfish17 on Wed May 26, 2004 1:54 am

Turkey: No difference between actions of Israel, terrorists <br>
<br>
By Reuters and Haaretz Service <br>
<br>
ANKARA - Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan on Tuesday criticized Israel's Rafah operation, saying that although Turkey also suffered from terrorism and was fighting it, he did not see a difference between what terrorists were doing and Israel's demolition of homes and the damage it was bringing to civilians. <br>
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Erdogan met with National Infrastructure Minister Yosef Paritzky, who said that the Turkish PM renewed offers to mediate between Israel and both the Palestinians and Syria.<br>
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Paritzky said the Turkish leader had been forthright in his criticism of Israel's assassination of two Hamas leaders and a recent huge raid on the Gaza Strip.<br>
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"The prime minister was very unhappy, to say the least," Paritzky told a small group of reporters.<br>
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"He claimed that the activities of the State of Israel do not promote peace...[But] he is willing to offer his services to mediate, negotiate and bring peace to the area."<br>
<br>
Muslim but firmly secular Turkey has close economic and security ties with Israel, which regards Ankara as a valuable ally in the region, but has also traditionally supported Palestinian aspirations to statehood.<br>
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Erdogan, who had previously offered to mediate in the Middle East conflict, accused Israel in March of "terrorism" after the killing of Hamas leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin.<br>
<br>
Speaking in a newspaper interview, he said then that the assassination had seriously damaged peace efforts and there was "nothing left to mediate".<br>
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"We shall be delighted for anyone - and of course Turkey - to be a power that will bring if not peace, at least some tranquillity to the area," Paritzky said.<br>
<br>
"If the government of Turkey is willing to offer its good services... I'm certain we would be happy to accept."<br>
<br>
Paritzky said Erdogan had also conveyed the message that Syria's President Bashar Assad, who made a landmark visit to Turkey in January, wanted peace with Israel.<br>
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Erdogan said in December that Turkey would like to help mediate between the two hostile neighbors, which held sporadic but fruitless peace negotiations until 2000.<br>
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Ankara's own relations with Damascus have recently thawed after years of frostiness related to rows over territory, water resources and Syrian support for Kurdish separatists in Turkey.<br>
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But Turkish diplomats said neither Israel nor Syria seemed very interested in the offer, and in February Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul specifically ruled out any mediation role.<br>
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Paritzky said Erdogan renewed his mediation offer. "He told me...he's willing to try to do it again if it will bring any results," he said.<br>
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Paritzky said Syria would have to do more to show it was serious about peace before Israel was convinced.<br>
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"If it is true that President Assad does indeed want peace and it's not just lip-service to the Western world...if indeed he's willing to go into this long and hard process of negotiating for peace, he will find us as partners," he said. <br>
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Ministers Yosef Paritzky of Israel, left, and Hilmi Guler of Turkey attending a signing ceremony for a $800 million gas deal in Ankara on Tuesday. (AP) <br>
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<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/431877.html">www.haaretzdaily.com/hase...31877.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
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njfish17
 

Turkey--mediator?

Postby njfish17 on Wed May 26, 2004 3:09 am

I figured I would snip some of the above article as I know most of you hate long articles like me:<br>
<br>
Erdogan met with National Infrastructure Minister Yosef Paritzky, who said that the Turkish PM renewed offers to mediate between Israel and both the Palestinians and Syria.<br>
<br>
"We shall be delighted for anyone - and of course Turkey - to be a power that will bring if not peace, at least some tranquillity to the area," Paritzky said.<br>
<br>
"If the government of Turkey is willing to offer its good services... I'm certain we would be happy to accept."<br>
<br>
Paritzky said Erdogan had also conveyed the message that Syria's President Bashar Assad, who made a landmark visit to Turkey in January, wanted peace with Israel.<br>
<br>
"If it is true that President Assad does indeed want peace and it's not just lip-service to the Western world...if indeed he's willing to go into this long and hard process of negotiating for peace, he will find us as partners," he said. <br>
<br>
www.haaretzdaily.com/hase...31877.html<br>
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<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Turkey--mediator?

Postby njfish17 on Wed May 26, 2004 3:14 am

I figured I would snip some of the above article as I know most of you hate long articles like me:<br>
<br>
Erdogan met with National Infrastructure Minister Yosef Paritzky, who said that the Turkish PM renewed offers to mediate between Israel and both the Palestinians and Syria.<br>
<br>
"We shall be delighted for anyone - and of course Turkey - to be a power that will bring if not peace, at least some tranquillity to the area," Paritzky said.<br>
<br>
"If the government of Turkey is willing to offer its good services... I'm certain we would be happy to accept."<br>
<br>
Paritzky said Erdogan had also conveyed the message that Syria's President Bashar Assad, who made a landmark visit to Turkey in January, wanted peace with Israel.<br>
<br>
"If it is true that President Assad does indeed want peace and it's not just lip-service to the Western world...if indeed he's willing to go into this long and hard process of negotiating for peace, he will find us as partners," he said. <br>
<br>
www.haaretzdaily.com/hase...31877.html<br>
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<p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Erdogan = Antichrist?

Postby njfish17 on Wed May 26, 2004 4:02 am

Prime Minister Erdogan of Turkey is the top candidate on my list for fulfillment of the Antichrist.<br>
<br>
He was born in Rize, Turkey which is right in Magog (the mountainous region between Cappodocia and Media).<br>
<br>
It's not a bad idea in my opinion to start watching this guy closely. <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Erdogan

Postby njfish17 on Wed May 26, 2004 7:46 am

"Stressing that they could endure acts of terrorism against Israel and terrorist elements that took shelter in Palestinian territories, Paritzky asked Erdogan too contribute to peace process and act as mediator as a result of historical ties between Turkey and Palestine, sources said."<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=20449">www.turkishpress.com/turk...p?ID=20449</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Tayyip Erdogan

Postby slk2295 on Wed May 26, 2004 4:50 pm

Hey NJ, <br>
<br>
I just took a look at this guy, and the first thing I thought is that he looks like (similar to) Hitler. My kids say I'm nuts though, and that he doesn't. Maybe it's just the mustache?<br>
<br>
Anyhow, I've gone back and forth over the years wondering if the AC might be Islamic or an EU leader. I think Turkey and Syria are very good candidate for the AC, as is the EU. <br>
<br>
Wondering about your thoughts on something though. This morning I was thinking about the covenant confirmation stuff, and was wondering - as far as I can tell, it doesn't actually say that the AC is the one to write or negotiate the peace treaty - only that he "confirms" (signs, agrees to?) it. <br>
<br>
Do you think that if the quartet acting together or any of them acting alone writes and negotiates a peace agreement between a bloc of mid-east countries - and say Turkey and Syria are part of the treaty and sign it, would this qualify as fulfillment? Or do you think scripture supports that the AC must already be in power and the leader of the 10-nation "beast kingdom" at the time it is signed?<br>
<br>
Which brings me to my second question. Do you think the 10 nation kingdom has to be in power (visable) at the start of the 70th week, or could it come into power following the treaty? <br>
<br>
Thanks for your input. <p>The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.<br>
Shanna </p><i></i>
slk2295
 

Hey

Postby njfish17 on Thu May 27, 2004 2:11 am

Shanna,<br>
<br>
Whether he looks like Hitler or not I think he does kind of fit my preconceived notions about what the AC would look like. I think he has the look to fit the role.<br>
<br>
Yeah I've wondered about the covenant also. The NASB says he makes a firm covenant with many. Based on the words used in the Hebrew it would seem that he just makes the covenant strong. So basically I don't know but I'm prepared to watch for either a confirming or making.<br>
<br>
One would think the 10 nation alliance does have to be around before the covenant since the 11th horn comes up after the 10 horns; however, it may be that the 10 nations are around but not as an alliance yet. I personally believe that the man who is the AC doesn't actually become the AC until right before the midpoint--after the assassination.<br>
<br>
If I had to have an opinion right now I would say that I think the 10 horns are in existence before the start of the 70th week and they are in the vision to Daniel because they are the ones in view. However, I don't think the AC subdues 3 of them until after the 70th week has started. Due to this subdueing, the beast empire is formed because they all give the AC their allegiance. Thus, I don't think the 10 horns are necessarily noticed as such prior to the uprooting of 3.<br>
<br>
So basically right now I think that the prince plays a role in the covenant and the beast kingdom is not formed until after the 70th week has started. Of course I think the foundation of the beast kingdom is Islam so it is already here but the actual 10-11 nation beast doesn't form as an alliance until after the 70th week has started.<br>
<br>
What do you think? <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

islam

Postby slk2295 on Thu May 27, 2004 7:16 pm

<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>What do you think?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br>
<br>
I don't know... I'm revisting a lot of different aspects right now and trying to get my poor overworked brain wrapped around all that I am learning. I'm sure you can relate.<br>
<br>
In regards to the covenant, I think it <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">could be</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> that the AC has no part in negotiating, but simply agrees to the terms of the agreement. So, if "the many" all hammer out a mid-east peace agreement, and a bunch of mid-east countries sign, as well as the quartet, I think it still could be any one of them that turns out to be the AC. <br>
<br>
The more I read, the more I also think that, although the ten nations are more than likely in existance, I think it's very possible that the alliance doesn't totally "gel" until after the start of the week. I'd say they'd probably have to be fairly solid at the time of the uprooting though. <br>
<br>
Although I can see a LOT of support for the beast kingdom being Islam, and the AC being muslim, I have one major issue with it - and it's more or less the same issue I have with the EU.<br>
<br>
If it's the EU, or some similar "western" conglomeration, it seems the likelihood of those countries breaking a treaty and attacking Israel is pretty low. It's just not "how things are done" in the west/EU. Also the severe persecution of Christians is hard to picture coming from the EU. <br>
<br>
On the other hand, if the Beast kingdom is Islam, then I have trouble seeing them as every being influential enough to institute a worldwide "mark" or having that much control over the market / economy to institute any kind of system that could control worldwide ability to buy and sell. <br>
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As I was typing this, I had a thought. In addition to taking a closer look at Daniel and Rev, I've been doing a lot of studying in places like Isaiah, Hosea, Micah, etc. <br>
<br>
This is fresh from the top of my head and hasn't been thought through, but is it possible that the Quartet COMBINED with the Islamic aliance is the "7th kingdom", and everyone together agrees to the peace agreement (perhaps as a UN document). <br>
<br>
The Quartet has the power to institute a worldwide ID system (I'm thinking it doesn't have to be a tatoo or chip, bio-smartcards would be sufficient perhaps). So, we become one big happy "peaceful" family. <br>
<br>
Then, somewhere just prior to the middle of the week, a "king" (11th horn/8th king) comes us from <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">among</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> the Islamic nations and makes a "behind the scenes" pact with 10 of the "kings" (perhaps not the country leaders - "don't have a kingdom yet"), and they attack Isreal. Then the Horn subdues three of the 10, and a short while later stands in the temple and declares himself god. Could that work? <br>
<br>
Hmmm. What about the FP? I still think the FP is more than likely a catholic bishop or pope that "brings together" the three big religions under one false god. Oh my! ... here's an interesting thought. The AC is called "the assyrian". Assyria is composed of "northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, southeastern Turkey and Syria." Pretty much the same area that you ascribe to Magog. HOWEVER look at this definition:<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Assyrians, although representing but one single nation as the direct heirs of the ancient Assyrian Empire, are now doctrinally divided, inter sese, into five principle ecclesiastically designated religious sects with their corresponding hierarchies and distinct church governments, namely, Church of the East, Chaldean, Maronite, Syriac Orthodox and <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Syriac Catholic</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br>
<br>
The Assyrians align themselves with christianity, not Islam. So.... just suppose that, say the AC's nationality is Assyrian, religion is "Syriac Catholic", but is a leader in a predominatly Islamic country (Turkey/Syria), so has great influnce with the Islamic gov'ts. <br>
<br>
So, a treaty is signed with "the many". The Catholics, "peaceful" Muslims, and "very left/liberal" christians all declare "we all worship the same god" and get all cozy. Then somehow, this Assyrian leader from Turkey/syria negotiates the "10-nation alliance" to attack Israel, declares himself god, and is backed by a "catholic" bishop(s) and other spiritual leaders.... I still have trouble seeing how the Islamic gov't would gain enough control or influence to either instigate or even take over ownership of any kind of international economical system (the mark). <br>
<br>
Hmmm, more to pray, study, and think through.<br>
<br>
What do you think? <p>The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.<br>
Shanna </p><i></i>
slk2295
 

Hey

Postby njfish17 on Fri May 28, 2004 2:01 am

Shanna,<br>
<br>
You definitely provided some food for thought. The "assyrian" title is also a little confusing for me also due to the fact that I think it would be really difficult for an Assyrian to get in power somewhere like Turkey.<br>
<br>
As far as a world-wide mark? I'm not convinced it's world-wide! However, if it is then I do think that Islam could implement this through their control of oil, especially if there were first a weapon of mass destruction here and there to kill our economy thus the world's economy.<br>
<br>
And...I also believe there is a spiritual realm that will come into play at the midpoint when Satan and his angels are cast down to the earth and the Revelation 12 says woe to those who dwell on the earth because of Satan's wrath. We often think of end-times in strictly political, military, and economical terms but I believe that there will be a massive spiritual aspect. I don't want to get weird on anyone but remember angels can appear as humans.<br>
<br>
With this spiritual aspect I think just about any group could implement a world-wide mark. <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

it will be Turkey

Postby njfish17 on Fri May 28, 2004 2:17 am

<br>
Listen to Turkey's rebuke <br>
<br>
<br>
It seems that no country is as friendly to Israel as Turkey, and not only in the Middle East. Turkey is also the only Muslim country that maintains full - one could even say ideal - relations with Israel. The relationship involves more than the billions of dollars exchanged between the two countries through private and governmental trade agreements, or the hundreds of thousands of Israelis who view Turkey as almost an Israeli leisure destination. Turkey's relationship to Israel is based on a worldview that sees the Jewish state as an example not only of success, but also of historic loyalties that date back to the relationship between the Jews and the Ottoman Empire. <br>
<br>
<br>
But Turkey's attitude to Israel must not be taken for granted. It has an interest in firming up its status in the Middle East, Central Asia and Europe. <br>
<br>
Israel can consider it an achievement that Turkey's relationship with countries like Iran and Syria has not come at the expense of its relationship with Israel, and that Turkey has continued to disregard the demands of Arab countries that it cool its relationship with Israel. Turkey is also an important ally in the war against terror, and itself takes drastic steps, sometimes in opposition to international treaties, when fighting terrorism by radical Kurdish groups. It is too easy to tell Turkey to look at the mote in its own eye and to present it with pictures of the thousands of razed Kurdish villages whose inhabitants were expelled in the name of what Turkey defines as its war against terror. It is also too easy to seek the reasons for Turkey's censure of Israel in an attempt to toe the line of the European Union, which Turkey wants to join.<br>
<br>
Beyond all these considerations, the Turkish government is bound by the opinion of the public that elected it. That same public opposes the war with Iraq and sees Israeli soldiers on television destroying Palestinian homes. Accordingly, when Turkey's leadership criticizes Israeli policies and considers calling its ambassador back for consultations and raising the rank of its diplomatic mission in East Jerusalem, Israel should sit up and take notice.<br>
<br>
Turkey is not threatening to cut off relations with Israel. It stresses that a distinction must be made between the state and the people of Israel, on one hand, and the policy of Israel's government, on the other. But Turkey is calling on its old friend to look around and beware of the implications of a policy that has gone awry. This Israeli policy can no longer narrow its vision to the Zeitun neighborhood or Tel Sultan or Rafah in the Gaza Strip. The destruction of a tunnel or a workshop, as important as they are, must be weighed against a vital relationship that is no less important in the war against terror than are the activities of the Israel Defense Forces. <br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/432498.html">www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/432498.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p203.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=njfish17@herbsdiscussionboard>njfish17</A> at: 5/28/04 8:34 am<br></i>
njfish17
 

Re: question

Postby carpentersdaughter on Sat May 29, 2004 4:41 pm

If the ac comes from an Islamic background, how will other Muslims listen to what this man says? It seems to me that they would hunt him down to kill him. He would be worse then the infidels who don't know any better.<br>
<br>
This is one reason why I don't see the AC having a Muslim heritage. It would not work in the radical world of Islam, and no decent Arab would listen to a man striving for peace between Israel and Palistine if he's not regarding the god of his fathers.<br>
<br>
If someone can give me a scriptural reason showing me that the AC has a muslim heritage, then I will accept it as fact.<br>
<br>
I believe that the AC either has a jewish heritage or Christian heritage because he comes claiming to be the Messiah, and a man with a Muslim heritage can not fulfill the prophecy of the Messiah that the jews believe is coming. Do ya all see what I am trying to say? No Jew in the world would accept a man with a Muslim heritage would accept him as their messiah, because he doesn't have the linage to be the messiah. <br>
<br>
As I write this it hits me that the AC will have to come from a jewish heritage for the jews to believe he is their messiah. That is the only way the messiah can come. Wow, can someone show me different on this? <p></p><i></i>
carpentersdaughter
 

Messiah?

Postby njfish17 on Sun May 30, 2004 7:00 am

Hey carpenter'sdaughter,<br>
<br>
I believe that Ezekiel 38-39 show that the AC comes from Turkey and who some of the allies of the AC will be...they are all Moslem today.<br>
<br>
Also I think that the burden of proof in regards to your question lies on you to prove that the Jews accept the AC as the Messiah. They will receive him as a man of peace but I do not believe that they receive him as Messiah. The Bible does not say that the Jews receive him as Messiah; In fact, Scripture says when he goes into the temple to claim himself God that the tribulation begins and the Jews flee for their lives to the wilderness. When he claims to be God, the Jews flee not accept him.<br>
<br>
Just my thoughts. In love! <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Re: Messiah?

Postby carpentersdaughter on Sun May 30, 2004 7:10 am

Thanks NJ,<br>
<br>
Thanks for bringing that to mind. I have been just so busy and with the stupid medication I have been on, I think my brain has gone south for good. Seems like being able to think properly has not been with me since I started this medication six months ago. I have to say I feel pretty stupid for bringing up subjects that I knew better on.<br>
<br>
If any of you who know me wonder why I have been coming up with some strange stuff, I honestly believe it's this medication that is causing my brain not to remember what I know as fact.<br>
<br>
Thank you again,<br>
Linda <p></p><i></i>
carpentersdaughter
 

re: carpentersdaughter

Postby farmer on Sun May 30, 2004 7:13 am

its so good to read from you again!<br>
hallelujah!<br>
<br>
farmer <p></p><i></i>
farmer
 

Hey

Postby njfish17 on Sun May 30, 2004 7:15 am

carperntersdaughter,<br>
<br>
Actually alot of people teach that the Jews accept the AC as the Messiah so you are not off in left field somewhere. Based on what I said I do not believe this is the case but you are not alone in thinking that the Jews receive him as Messiah so your question wasn't bad at all.<br>
<br>
I jus tdon't believe there is any scriptural support for the Jews receiving him as the Messiah.<br>
<br>
Jesus told them that they do not receive Him but another will come in his own name and him they will receive but this does not mean they receive him as Messiah. They receive him as a man who brings peace and "enjoyment".<br>
<br>
And I have read that the orthodox Jews will accept anyone who brings about the rebuilding of the temple. <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

keeping up with Erdogan

Postby njfish17 on Sun May 30, 2004 8:36 am

By the way check this guy out at turkeypost.com<br>
<br>
<br>
"Asked what kind of steps would be taken in G-8 summit regarding the Middle East problem, Erdogan said, ''developments in the Middle East, particularly the developments in Palestine and Iraq, wounds our heart. We have taken several steps to contribute to initiatives to provide peace between Israel and Palestine. However, we could not obtain the expected results at the first step. Yet, we are still insistent in this respect and we will continue efforts.'' <br>
<br>
Stating that Turkey would join G-8 meeting in the United States not as a target country but a democratic partner, Erdogan said, ''we are ready to expend support to democratic openings here in case there is not any authoritarian approach. We will support democratic openings of countries included in the Greater Middle East Project.'' "<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=20588">www.turkishpress.com/turk...p?ID=20588</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Re: question

Postby Claire on Sun May 30, 2004 9:05 am

There have been many false messiah's - those who came in their own name. Some of the most famous - Bar Kochba in 140 AD who began a rebellion that led to massive slaughter, but held the Roman's off for 3 years. Shabbati Tsvi was another, I think around 1100 - who caused such an uproar that he was arrested by the Turks and ordered to either convert to Islam or be killed. He converted to Islam, and while most of his followers dispersed, some converted to Islam and still remain as a separate sect today, I forgot what they are called. <p>Shalom,<br>
Claire<br>
Endtime Chaverim(friends)<br>
http://www.merville.biz/chaverim</p><i></i>
Claire
 

Re: question

Postby carpentersdaughter on Sun May 30, 2004 9:17 am

Orange, NJ, ?Claire,<br>
<br>
Thank you for your kind replies. <br>
<br>
I am weining myself off these drugs, I just don't like what they are doing to me. Being clear minded is so very important to me, and with these meds. I can't do that.<br>
<br>
In His Love,<br>
Linda<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
carpentersdaughter
 

Hey

Postby njfish17 on Sun May 30, 2004 10:13 am

Orange,<br>
<br>
Just so you realize, I am not totally convinced that the AC himself is Muslim. I believe he leads an alliance of muslim nations; however, it is possible that he has more of a Judeo-Christian background. Perhaps he is an Assyrian-Christian. I'm more convinced of where he comes from and what alliance he leads more than I am of exactly what background in religion he is. However, if he isn't Muslim then I don't really see how he will get Muslims to follow so yes I would have to lean towards a Muslim background but I'm not dogmatic.<br>
<br>
I can see how a Judeo-Christian background could play more into the apostasy. Then again if the false prophet plays the role of the "Christian" then the two major religions would be involved.<br>
<br>
No matter how it pans out, I think we are getting real close and we better make sure we are in right standing and seek to grow in our faith and live out our faith...This I know we agree upon.<br>
<br>
I can't wait to meet everyone in the clouds one day. Whether resurrected or alive!! Of course I would much rather meet Jesus than you rascals. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

This is getting real interesting!!!

Postby njfish17 on Sun May 30, 2004 2:47 pm

<br>
<br>
President Receives New Turkish Ambassador, Keen On Expansion of Ties <br>
<br>
<br>
TEHRAN (IRNA) -- New Turkish Ambassador to Iran Halit Bozkur Aran handed his credentials to President Mohammad Khatami here Saturday.<br>
<br>
The presidential office for press affairs said that in the meeting, Khatami referred the historical, cultural and social ties between Iran and Turkey.<br>
<br>
National security of the two nations is intertwined and Tehran attaches great importance to Turkey's peace and security concerns, the president underlined. He also alluded to the harm inflicted on the regional countries by terrorism and narcotics trafficking and highlighted the need for cooperation to wipe out the twin menace...<br>
<br>
He said Turkey welcomes elevation of bilateral economic and political ties which has positive repercussions in cementing regional peace and security.<br>
<br>
Meanwhile, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is to visit Iran soon, said Turkish foreign minister here last week. ...<br>
<br>
Gul underlined Erdogan's government has put on its agenda the expansion of relations with Islamic countries, saying shuttle trips between Iranian and Turkish officials will continue.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Re: Hey, Hey, give us NJ

Postby orangemailman on Mon May 31, 2004 6:57 am

NJ-<br>
<br>
And remember that I believe that Islam will have a definite place in Mystery Babylon. I view Zephaniah 1 as being a pattern for all religions coming together on the temple mount. I do not see how Islam will be denied a place if Jerusalem is declared an international city. I just don't see Islam as being the fourth beast.<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I can't wait to meet everyone in the clouds one day. Whether resurrected or alive!! Of course I would much rather meet Jesus than you rascals.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
This is pretty funny. I think part of the joy will be that the people that we will be meeting with at that time will truly be in the image of Christ. They will really get to be themselves without all of the sin that kept them from fulfilling God's design in them.<br>
<br>
Have fun and keep your eyes open - Ephesians 5:14-17<br>
<br>
-The Orange Mailman <p></p><i></i>
orangemailman
 

more relevant news!

Postby njfish17 on Wed Jun 02, 2004 4:18 am

Turkey Will Voice Its Views About Middle East At G-8 Summit: Erdogan<br>
Anadolu Agency: 6/1/2004 <br>
ANKARA - Turkey would voice its views about the Middle East at the G-8 Summit to be held in the United States, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Tuesday. <br>
<br>
Appearing on a private television channel, Erdogan said, ''you have to sit at the table. You will be a participant as long as you sit at the table. And, then your word may be listened. We will be there to this end.'' <br>
<br>
Turkey was invited to the G-8 Summit as a ''democratic partner'' not as a target country, Erdogan noted. <br>
<br>
Erdogan said that he would voice Turkey's views on the project to be shaped up regarding the Middle East. <br>
<br>
Noting that leaders of 13-14 countries would meet at the summit, Erdogan said that this summit would be the first step. <br>
<br>
Erdogan said, ''I think it is wrong to remain outside these developments. We will make our evaluations and then take necessary steps. The further you are from the table, the further your interests would be away from this table. You have to sit at the table. You will be a participant as long as you sit at the table. And, then your word may be listened. We will be there to this end.'' <br>
<br>
Asked if Turkey would be a mediator in Israeli-Palestine dispute, Erdogan said, ''why not? We told the Israeli minister that we will undertake such a duty willingly. Turkey should be in such an effort in the Middle East. When our Foreign Minister (Abdullah Gul) was getting prepared to go to the Middle East, these incidents erupted. If those incidents had not occurred, Mr. Gul would have concluded the diplomacy traffic. And, then it would have been my turn and I would have gone there. We are going to participate in the G-8 summit with our own will.'' <br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=20676">www.turkishpress.com/turk...p?ID=20676</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

This is why the EU won't let them in!!

Postby njfish17 on Wed Jun 02, 2004 1:37 pm

"Regarding the Palestinian issue, Gul underlined that joining the European Union will be a support to the Palestinian and Islamic issues since Turkey will be the greatest state that includes the biggest number of parliamentarians at the European Parliament."<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.turkeypost.com/p/dc/eee058bedd287f.html?id=WNATaac60f22da489b20e8d98b6765ffd905">www.turkeypost.com/p/dc/e...6765ffd905</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Hey

Postby njfish17 on Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:25 am

I will post parts of the interview with Erdogan...<br>
<br>
"But at the level of the government, we are in favor of the peace process being regenerated, and the government of Israel has not contributed to our efforts to do so. Why am I saying this? I would have wished that a government, a cabinet, would not decide to carry out an assassination, because governments should never put aside the law." ...<br>
<br>
<br>
"You recently met with quite a few Middle East heads of state, and several Arab leaders have visited Ankara. Maintaining close relations with Israel puts Turkey in a unique position in our region. How do you view the actual Turkish position in the Middle East?<br>
<br>
Historically, we have played an important role in the Middle East. There was a period of cold relations for a while, there was a gap in the relations. We have closed that gap. <br>
<br>
While doing so, we wanted to act as a mediator for peace in the Middle East, to serve as mediator between Israel and the other countries of the Middle East. We brought this up in every meeting we had. I hope to be able to continue in this." ...<br>
<br>
<br>
"So are we going to be honored with your visit sometime in the near future?<br>
<br>
First we need to rearrange my foreign minister's visit, and then we can plan the next steps. After all, the president of Israel came and was our guest here. As far as Turkey is concerned, we do not have a problem with this issue." ...<br>
<br>
<br>
"I was the first prime minister who ever visited the chief rabbi in the history of Turkey." ...<br>
<br>
<br>
"I would like to send 'Shalom' to all the citizens of Israel, especially the ones who have emigrated from Turkey."<br>
<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/434975.html">www.haaretzdaily.com/hase...34975.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Erdogan at G8

Postby njfish17 on Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:37 am

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=20829">www.turkishpress.com/turk...p?ID=20829</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
<br>
Turkey Wants Peace And Stability To Be Provided In Middle East: Cicek<br>
Anadolu Agency: 6/7/2004 <br>
ANKARA - Turkish Justice Minister and Government Spokesman Cemil Cicek has said, ''Turkey wants peace and stability to be provided in the Middle East.'' <br>
<br>
Holding a press conference following meeting of the Council of Ministers, Cicek said on Monday, ''Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan will leave for the United States this week and explain Turkey's views about the Greater Middle East Initiative at the G-8 Summit. All kinds of developments in the Middle East affect Turkey. Therefore, Turkey should explain its views at such high-level international meetings.'' <br>
<br>
''Turkey wants peace, stability and democracy to be provided in the Middle East,'' Cicek added. <br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Hey

Postby njfish17 on Mon Jun 07, 2004 8:38 am

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=20808">www.turkishpress.com/turk...p?ID=20808</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
<br>
Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan Due To The United States<br>
Anadolu Agency: 6/7/2004 <br>
ANKARA - Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan will leave for the United States on Tuesday. <br>
<br>
Erdogan will attend G-8 Summit Meeting as a ''democratic partner'' on June 9 in Sea Island in the United States upon the invitation of U.S. President George Bush. <br>
<br>
Participants will discuss how G-8 will support development of Middle East and northern Africa region in political, economic and social aspects and what will be the contributions of Turkey to this issue and also development of cooperation among G-8, the European Union (EU), Turkey and regional partners. <br>
<br>
Erdogan will be the honorary guest of meetings which will be held by ''Academy of Achievement'' in Chicago between June 11 and 12. He will attend a luncheon which will be hosted by American-Turkish Council and meet with representatives of Turkish society. <br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Gog and Persia

Postby njfish17 on Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:05 am

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.tehrantimes.com/Description.asp?Da=6/8/2004&Cat=5&Num=2">www.tehrantimes.com/Descr...at=5&Num=2</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
<br>
Turkey-Iran Friendship Group Underlines Mutual Cooperation <br>
<br>
<br>
ANKARA (IRNA) -- Turkish head of the Turkey-Iran Parliamentary Friendship Group Ahmet Eynal urged here Thursday all-out expansion of mutual relations between the two countries, given the potentials of and commonalities between Turkey and Iran.<br>
<br>
"Strengthening friendship among countries is one of the major objectives of establishing parliamentary friendship groups," Eynal said in a banquet in the presence of over 40 members of the group. He underlined Iran's stable foreign policy in recent years, its balanced economic growth, the country's vast reserves of energy and the educated population, adding "unfortunately, given the facts and figures, the mutual relations have not been reached an acceptable level."<br>
<br>
The potential opportunities of the regional countries should be exploited to develop the countries, stressed Eynal, saying the Middle Eastern nations should join their efforts to remove the existing obstacles.<br>
<br>
...<br>
<br>
click on link for rest of article <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Erdogan-Clinton

Postby njfish17 on Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:46 am

Turkish Prime Minister Meets With Former U.S. President<br>
Anadolu Agency: 6/12/2004 <br>
CHICAGO - Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan met with former U.S. President Bill Clinton in Chicago late on Friday. <br>
<br>
Erdogan, who proceeded from Washington to Chicago, had a meeting with Clinton for about 45 minutes. <br>
<br>
Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan attended dinner hosted by Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley. <br>
<br>
Before he came to Chicago, Erdogan attended funeral of former U.S. President Ronald Reagan. <br>
<br>
Erdogan flew from Washington to Chicago on the same plane with King Abdullah of Jordan. Aboard the plane, Erdogan and Abdullah discussed Israeli-Palestinian dispute and Group of Eight (G-<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> summit held in Sea Island. <br>
<br>
...<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=21023">www.turkishpress.com/turk...p?ID=21023</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

OIC- Turkey takes over President term

Postby njfish17 on Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:49 am

O.I.C. Conference Of Foreign Ministers To Take Place In Istanbul Next Week<br>
<br>
<br>
...<br>
<br>
According to the draft program, Iranian Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi, as the Term President of OIC, and OIC Secretary General Abdelouahed Belkeziz will address the participants. <br>
<br>
After Kharrazi's speech, secretariat of the conference will be chosen and Turkey will take over the term presidency. <br>
<br>
Thus, Turkish Foreign Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Abdullah Gul will deliver a speech as the new term president. <br>
<br>
Participants will attend dinner hosted by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in the evening. <br>
<br>
...<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=21024">www.turkishpress.com/turk...p?ID=21024</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Turkey become mediator?

Postby njfish17 on Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:17 am

Erdogan: Turkey Ready To Contribute Peace Process In Middle East<br>
Anadolu Agency: 6/14/2004 <br>
CHICAGO-ISTANBUL - Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said late on Sunday that Turkey was ready to contribute to the peace process in the Middle East. <br>
<br>
Prime Minister Erdogan replied to questions of journalists on his way back from the United States to Turkey. <br>
<br>
Upon a question about Turkey's proposal to act as a mediator to find a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian dispute, Prime Minister Erdogan said, ''the sides will make a decision about the process. If they accept our proposal, we are ready to do our utmost to make a contribution to the peace process in the Middle East. Turkey is the guarantee of peace and friendship in its region.'' <br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=21067">www.turkishpress.com/turk...p?ID=21067</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Turkey and peace

Postby njfish17 on Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:51 am

Erdogan: Turkey Has Become One Of Most Influential And Distinguished Countries With Its Peace Policies <br>
Anadolu Agency: 6/15/2004 <br>
ANKARA - Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who also acts as the leader of the Justice and Development Party (AK Party) said on Tuesday, ``Turkey has become one of the most influential and distinguished countries of the world with its effective peace policies.`` <br>
<br>
Speaking at the parliamentary group meeting of the AK Party, Prime Minister Erdogan said, ``Turkey has become one of the most influential and distinguished countries of the world with its effective peace policies. Now, Turkey should increase its diplomatic influence and take place in final declarations.`` <br>
<br>
...<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=21193">www.turkishpress.com/turk...p?ID=21193</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

OIC

Postby njfish17 on Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:46 am

I find it very interesting that Turkey has taken over the term presidency of the OIC (Organization of Islamic Conference) and a Turk was elected as secretary general of OIC at the OIC yesterday in Istanbul. <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Re: Turkey become mediator?

Postby blessedayers on Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:05 am

I came across this symbol and thought about this thread<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
Interesting dont ya think?<br>
love and prayers jody<br>
<br>
edited to add link to site:<br>
<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.crossroad.to/Books/symbols1.html" target="top">www.crossroad.to/Books/symbols1.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
<br>
SUN SIGN 2 : Found in Turkey and believed to represent the sun and the four directions. (See Swastika 1 and 2). Compare the curving lines with the primary lines of Swastika 3, the iron cross. Notice also that without the horizontal line, the symbol resembles the outline of the Yin-Yang. <br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.crossroad.to/images/Symbols/sunsign2.gif" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p203.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=blessedayers>blessedayers</A> at: 6/17/04 11:07 am<br></i>
blessedayers
 

hey

Postby njfish17 on Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:14 am

blessedayers,<br>
<br>
Yes. I'll check that out. Also thanks for that link you gave me. I read quite a bit of it. Some interesting thoughts and ideas. <p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

what's up with Turkey

Postby njfish17 on Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:22 pm

I'm sure few if any actually read these articles but I thought I would just share some of the news right now and how I think it could play out...<br>
<br>
Turkey just took over term presidency of the OIC (Organization of Islamic conference) for one year. A Turk was elected as secretary general of the OIC for 4 years. The EU will decide pretty soon (definitely by December) if Turkey will be able to begin concession talks to join the EU.<br>
<br>
Based on what I've read from both sides (EU and Turkey) I would be very suprised to see the EU agree to begin concession talks with Turkey. It is possible that I'm wrong and they will begin talks...I don't think this hurts my belief that the AC will come from Turkey.<br>
<br>
Anyway, I don't think they will begin talks so I think this will anger Turkey beyond belief. The amount of change Turkey has endeavored upon to join the EU is drastic and will cause them to go strictly to the Islamic side.<br>
<br>
This will lead to the confirmation of a covenant (result of Gaza pull-out?) And we know what happens from there.<br>
<br>
I have a hard time believing that the amount of time and effort Turkey is putting into this EU accession will not lead to idleness if rejected. And remember ERdogan is already stating his willingness to be a peace mediator. And unlike other countries in the region, Turkey is in a good position to fulfill this role.<br>
<br>
There is alot happening this year even from my perspective...such as Turkey-EU decision and Gaza pull-out plan that could cause things to begin to come into the light for those who are watching to see.<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

Re: what's up with Turkey

Postby blessedayers on Fri Jun 18, 2004 5:27 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I'm sure few if any actually read these articles but I thought I would just share some of the news right now and how I think it could play out...<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>
<br>
Nj, Ive actually been looking into it since you have brought it up......and would have posted about the OIC , but figured it was probably already covered:-) I thought it interesting too.<br>
<br>
I will say this....I can see your point. First is the antichrist the one who brings the peace spoken of? Or could it be inplace already, then he decides to declare himself god?<br>
If peace can be in place before he is......could it be that the islamic religion is brought under control first, then he stands up and declares a holy war to take back jerusalem? Blaming christians and jews for what he sees as the coruption of his religion?<br>
Im throwing this out in the dark here so go easy on me :-)<br>
Ive been couped up in the house with a cranky grandson so I may not be in my right mind at the moment......lol<br>
Love and prayers jody <p></p><i></i>
blessedayers
 

Turkey in EU unlikely

Postby njfish17 on Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:12 am

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.washtimes.com/world/20040619-112333-1078r.htm">www.washtimes.com/world/2...-1078r.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>
<br>
Ankara keeps up effort to join EU<br>
<br>
<br>
By Andrew Borowiec<br>
THE WASHINGTON TIMES<br>
<br>
<br>
NICOSIA, Cyprus — Turkey continues to push its case for admission to the European Union, undaunted by a poor turnout for recent elections to the European Parliament, in which sitting governments were almost universally rebuffed. <br>
The theme of the Ankara government of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is: "We are the progressive and modern face of Islam." <br>
<br>
"We have demonstrated that a country with an overwhelmingly Muslim population can turn its face to and integrate with the Western world," Mr. Erdogan said. <br>
In political and editorial statements, the Turks say they have demonstrated that Islam and democracy are not incompatible and warned that a European refusal to open accession talks in December seriously could damage Turkey's relations with the Continent. <br>
Although opinion polls across Europe indicate opposition to Turkish membership in the recently expanded and predominantly Christian union of 25 member states, EU officials urge acceptance, saying Turkey has been making both political and economic progress. <br>
The Turks are bitterly aware of the extent of the opposition to their candidacy. The Istanbul Hurriyet daily wrote that "No to Turkey" is a popular slogan "in election leaflets and brochures of some political parties." <br>
Only 5 percent of Turkey's territory and 15 percent of its population of 66 million are on the European side of the Bosporus Strait. Turkey's ambition to join the European Union is strongly backed by the United States, which sees Turkey as a stabilizing factor in one of the world's most volatile regions. <br>
The EU Executive Commission recently described Turkish reforms as "really impressive," but cautioned that "areas of concern remain." The union plans to issue a definitive assessment of Turkish qualifications in October. <br>
Turkey's European ambitions have not been dampened by the European elections of last week, in which only 45.3 percent of the electorate voted and largely favored opposition parties. <br>
The turnout was even lower in the formerly communist countries in Eastern and Central Europe, reflecting a mood of apathy and skepticism. <br>
The outcome cast doubt on the prospects for the ratification of the European constitution that was adopted Friday, and even on the further expansion of the European Union. <br>
The leftist Istanbul Cumhuriyet daily wrote last week: "Iraq's invasion by the United States has turned Turkey into one of the most important countries in world politics. ... Turkey is basically determined to adopt the EU's legal norms, but there is a possibility that Turkey will be asked to make new political concessions." <br>
The newspaper warned against the Bush administration's ambitious "Greater Middle East Project," saying, "We should tell the world before it is too late that this will also fail like many other schemes Washington devised for the Middle East." <br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
njfish17
 

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