What will the "coming apostasy" look like?

by **notforhimself** on Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:14 am

What will the so called "coming apostasy" look like?
Can anyone shed any light on this question, or provide your own take?
And is your view taken from II Thess 2:3 and the phrase: "except there come a falling away first"?
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."
I just like to have a little feedback, or possibly someone can direct me to a previous post somewhere that perhaps I missed which may answer my questions.

Website · by **Final Trumpet** on Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:31 am

You can't see it? We are already in it. As we see all of the Christ-less church movements, the social gospel being so prevalent, the turning away from Biblical truth, and the widespread acceptance of sin like homosexuality being pushed. We are witness to this falling away and it will only get worse as time goes forward.

by **mouserpg** on Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:45 am

Feels like the great falling away is already underway.

by **perigrini** on Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:48 am

mouserpg wrote:Feels like the great falling away is already underway.

I believe that when persecution begins we will see a great falling away. Those not willing to identify with Christ when there is a cost associated with it will reach a point where they will have to make a decision.

Apostasy is rampant in our churches now, however.

Blessings,

perigrini

by **jgilberAZ** on Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:56 am

Agreed. It's here now, and it's becoming more and more prevalent.

Check out Christian Research Network.

by **Salty Skipper** on Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:09 pm

I think that much of it will stem from the fact that there are many who are not grounded in the Word. That's why it's important for us to pray for discernment, now more than ever.

by **smallisland** on Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:18 pm

I think we may see many regular "churchgoers" being the first to fall away.

by **Primetime19** on Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:37 pm

I hate to say this, but many already have.

by **hoshianna** on Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:06 pm

Oh well. Here goes; churches that insist on tithes (10%) and accept contributions from non members are apostate and covetous therefore idolatrous.

2Co 9:7 RV Let each man do according as he hath purposed in his heart; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Lev 22:25 RV Neither from the hand of a foreigner shall ye offer the bread of your God of any of these; because their corruption is in them, there is a blemish in them: they shall not be accepted for you.

Col 3:5 RV Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, the which is idolatry;

:scared

by **Salty Skipper** on Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:11 pm

by **Bob the Quiet** on Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:51 pm

notforhimself wrote:What will the so called "coming apostasy" look like?
Can anyone shed any light on this question, or provide your own take?
And is your view taken from II Thess 2:3 and the phrase: "except there come a falling away first"?
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."
I just like to have a little feedback, or possibly someone can direct me to a previous post somewhere that perhaps I missed which may answer my questions.

Look at Benny Hinn and those like him.

by **MaryALice** on Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:11 am

Under Our Noses!

I wrote this on another message board, but thought it should be here instead. I was viewing video on the MEMRI.ORG website. This is video news clips from all around the world. I wanted to see what the news is like in other areas including IRAN. One of the video clips (which i've tried to re-locate after seeing my local news) was an Iranian man on one of these broadcasting clips. He was saying alot of stuff that I normally here, but he also said that there was an increasingly number of Americans turning to Islam.... and unless we all convert to Islam we will die. (reminds me of the MoB). Anyways, In my head I wondered how much MIS-information these people carry around with them is almost becoming a comedy act of sorts. Then later on last night I was watching my local news, and they did a segment about an alarming number of Americans turning from christianity to ISLAM. That was alarming to me....

This man across the world was more in tuned to what was going on here in America than me? Right under our noses! Is this a wake up call. That is why I had to post this.

They interviewed 3 different people on ( I believe it was either channel 4 or Fox News) that have converted. Mostly college aged young adults. They all 3 had similar needs...... To be a part of a whole. Two of them said that the "brotherhood" of this Islamic faith is something that attracted them to the faith. Is this the place that our churches fail? Christianity can look so confusing to unbelievers because 90 something percent of Americans claim that they are christians...... So that means all forms, walks, beliefs, any way the wind blows is what christianity must look to unbelievers. Islam... it's straight forward, no deviation to (from my understanding). I'm not at all condoning ISLAM. It is a religion where the False Prophet will arrive. What I am saying is the word christianity has become as clear as muddy water for those that do not know the truth. It becomes eaiser for false religions to grab ahold of those that are lost.

I am looking for a church.... So i go to the internet and do a search for a Church in my area. I pulled up over a dozen churches, but none of them were the same beliefs... Some of them are fronts for false teachings. I dont have any answers, I'm just trying to make sense of it all I guess.

:dunno:

I guess at the end of the day, this is all part of God's blueprint for the end times. I just need to do my part and reach the lost through his gospel.

But I did want to stress this point, apostacy is all around us, even under out noses.

In Christ's Love, MaryAlice[/img][/list][/list]

by **smallisland** on Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:41 am

You're right MaryAlice. When I look back 30 years or so when I first became a christian and started going to church, it was more clear cut. The gospel was still preached in many churches - repent and be baptized, then live a 'separate' life in obedience to Gods word. Now I'm shocked at how all embracing most churches have become. I think we can expect this to get worse and worse and those who don't go along with it will not be tolerated and will have no choice but to get out. I can imagine "religion" growing in polularity - it may even become the cool thing to do to "go to church" - but it won't have anything to do with christianity.

by **krw0315** on Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:03 pm

smallisland wrote:...I think we can expect this to get worse and worse and those who don't go along with it will not be tolerated and will have no choice but to get out.

I already have done so. In my area there are NO churches that preach the gospel and eschew the latest "church growth" fad.
:cry:

by **krw0315** on Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:19 pm

MaryALice wrote:... the word christianity has become as clear as muddy water for those that do not know the truth.

In Acts 11: 26b we read that "the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." I've often wondered who was calling them that: fellow believers or the worldlings? More and more, I am coming to think that it was the latter, and that it's use was derogatory (as it may well become in the not-too-distant future) and not complimentary.

I am looking for a church.... So i go to the internet and do a search for a Church in my area. I pulled up over a dozen churches, but none of them were the same beliefs... Some of them are fronts for false teachings.

I hear ya, sister; same thing I've found. If it's not watered-down social-gospel liberal "churches" then it's fake "word of faith" businesses masquerading as "churches."

I'm tellin' ya, I'm SO starved for fellowship and hearing the Word preached I don't know where to turn.

by **yhudit32548** on Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:58 pm

K R W I am in the same situation as you. Im so hungry for G-dly fellowship! AS far as the falling away,,,,we are in it and it will get worse!
Y'shua asked"Who will I find faithfull(Emunah)when I return???
I have near me what at one time was a good Calvary Chapel.But it has gone down the emergent path as well. The pastor has been warned in love too repent of this, but his heart is hard.I could go on already. I do have a few friends who love the LORD and we pray that Y'shua will keep us in HIM.Stay in the WORD!! Fellowshop with your family if you can.

Noah was faithfull and there were only 7 of them(or 8?)."Just as in the days of Noah" Y'shua said

Shalom

by **MaryALice** on Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:21 pm

I hear you guys! That in itself is comforting to know that it's not just me.

I live in a fairly large city outside of St.Louis...... Or is it a large county outside of St.Louis? lol Where ever I'm at.......... There should be a church with in a reasonable distance from me you would think. This Rick Warren is a blessing... becuase as soon as I hear the church is preacihing on his book, it is saves me so much time in finding the exit door. The church that I attend occassionally has recently started Celebrate Recovery.... Which I thought was ok.... It's a ministry.... But when I go to church on a Sunday, and the entire message is "Celebrate Recovery" and they plan on doing it for the next 4 weeks..... It gets me down... Then I read somewhere on this website that Celebrate Recovery is a rick warren teaching also? Is that true?

:cry:

by **mushwog** on Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:14 pm

Wow,I'm so glad to be here, I've been so used to churches and still do go to one but not the same way I did before letting them control my life. I was so hurt because they acted like they had all the answers but they had programs and meetings not relationship. I don't feel church was to be like that. I know that when even 2 are together in Jesus name like we are here we have church. I have friends who still think that I have to have some kind of covering. Wow I don't need that kind of covering, the kind that causes me to put aside what I read in the word and follow their teachings that don't even add up. Just a bunch of feel good stuff. I do know it is good to fellowship with each other and I do. I also know we are in the end times and it will get much worse. The church will not have all the answers only God does. It reminds me of when the deciples first began to understand Jesus, they did not understand everything because it was not time. But now we are understanding more because it it time to. We are coming out of places of darkness as christians and seeing truth right in front of us. God is opening up the word like never before right now. It is because it is time. As long as we hold on to the bible we will not fall away but when we get stoped up by programs and teachings we will be lead into deception. In the word we are warned that in these times even the elect will be deceved. We are in need of seeking His truth. Wow now thats a concept hun? I'll get off my soap box now :soapbox:

I'm just so glad to be here among those who see us in these times. :banana:

Mushwog

by **mushwog** on Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:49 pm

Just forgot to mention that I feel closer to God right now in my life than ever, Im a clown and I see God more in the faces of children than in any chruch or orginization I've been too. This is also the closest I get to real fellowship. You people are real and I'm thankful. I hope my post was not to hard on churches as I know some of you are very connected as so am I but what I'm saing is the church does not hold the answers to our intamacy with God only us and Jesus can do that, I was hurt in church and yet I loved being able to hug and pray with people, just not be comtroled by them.

by **Sherree** on Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:20 pm

I hear what you guys are saying! When we left our first church, we had no one but God. All our former church members turned their backs on us, and called us extremists!!!

That's when we found FP. That was just after the board got started. I have found that the fellowship I get here is true. Also, here, I have heard so much teaching and preaching of the true Word, that nothing else compares, except just sitting at Jesus feet fellowshipping and hearing Him.

What on Earth will we do if this board goes down? :eek:

by **water** on Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:55 pm

What will the so called "coming apostasy" look like?

It will look like the evening news.

The entire world is not only rebelling against God, it is mocking him. The people that hate God and his ways are so bold these days.

That, IMHO, is what it looks like.

50 years ago, homosexuality was considered a very bad thing, not only in the U.S., but across the world. Now, it is *cool* to be gay.

And homosexuality is only a single blade of grass in the field of human rebellion...murders, adultery, slavery of all kinds going on...still...today!

We are living in the middle of the great apostasy right now.

by **MaryALice** on Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:57 pm

Thats a BIG :a3:

by **njfishwatchTurkey&Isr** on Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:33 pm

We wish the great apostasy were underway. Apostasy is going on for sure, but the great apostasy will be just that...great.

Jesus spoke of it:

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.
Mat 24:5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.

Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
Mat 24:10 "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
Mat 24:11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
Mat 24:12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
Mat 24:13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

The great apostasy will not come until the great tribulation begins. It is at the time of the great tribulation that the great apostasy will take place. Many christians (not only professing) will fall away, most people's love will grow cold.

by **water** on Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:53 pm

I personally would not be so confident that the tribulation has not already begun. Sure, it will be worse...but how many Christians are being butchered around the world already?

Also, remember that Jesus says that if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived, which indicates that it is not possible.

by **MaryALice** on Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:04 pm

I agree water, just because it's not happening in your back yard, dont forget what is happening around the world. Christians are being persecuted everywhere across the globe. It will affect us in the later stages in my humble opinion. I believe it was Herb that explained at one of his prophecy meetings........ the closer that one lives in regards to the anti christ the stronger the affects of the persecution. Like rings around a ball...... the futher away you get from the center the lesser the degree. So, it's happening.... and i believe it is coming. Every where you look there are signs. There was a video tonight regarding the Pole Reversal of the earth..... starting in the year 2008 through 2015. Major devastational occurences in weather and geographical disturbances along the coast lines all over the world. Coinsides with everything else I keep seeing.... Road signs..... With all the road signs out there, anyone that doesnt know where we are, ...........well there just not looking. BLessings, MaryAlice :armor:

by **njfishwatchTurkey&Isr** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:22 am

What a shock we are in for if we actually believe it has already started. Of course the elect can be deceived.

by **Abiding in His Word** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:44 am

njfishwatchTurkey&Isr wrote:What a shock we are in for if we actually believe it has already started. Of course the elect can be deceived.

Well....the fact that some believe the apostasy has already started is at least an indication that they are alert and watching the numerous false teachings, right? Not necessarily a negative I think.

by **water** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:48 am

njfishwatchTurkey&Isr wrote:What a shock we are in for if we actually believe it has already started. Of course the elect can be deceived.

The reason for my statement is as follows:

Matthew 24:23 “Then if anyone tells you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah,’ or ‘There he is,’ don’t believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones. 25 See, I have warned you about this ahead of time.

Many other translations say "if it were possible", but "if possible" makes the same point, that God's chosen ones will not be deceived by the false prophets and false messiahs.

by **Downpour** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:53 am

njfishwatchTurkey&Isr wrote:What a shock we are in for if we actually believe it has already started. Of course the elect can be deceived.

I agree with you!! You can not fall away from something you never had. These people who will fall away are true Christians. They had Jesus, yet they will be deceive and fall away.

Yes there are many churches who are in apostacy, these people who go to those churches, and believe a false gospel, are not saved, they are not trusting God, but they trust man. They can not fall away because they where never saved to begin with. Some where, but in believing a false gospel, they to have fallen away.

But the great falling away, will be when the AC appears, and Christians will be deceived if they are not properly grounded in the Truth of God, or they will love their lives more than they love the Lord Jesus Christ. They will fall away.

The tribulation is not going to be a walk in the park. We have never ever experienced anything like this ever. It's going to be horrific when it's starts, and many will chose their lives rather than staying with God.

by **water** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:13 am

Downpour wrote:
njfishwatchTurkey&Isr wrote:What a shock we are in for if we actually believe it has already started. Of course the elect can be deceived.

I agree with you!! You can not fall away from something you never had. These people who will fall away are true Christians. They had Jesus, yet they will be deceive and fall away.

Well, there are plenty of threads that cover the topic of saved forever or not, but what you are saying really puts the power of salvation in man's hand, not the Lords.

In my personal and humble opinion, just as the Lord has washed *all* of our sins away, he is also to keep us despite ourselves.

It is pretty plain in Matthew 24 that it is not possible to deceive those who are saved.

If it is possible, then someone needs to come up with a pretty crafty explanation of that verse.

by **njfishwatchTurkey&Isr** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:30 am

Hey water,

I thought my previous explanations on this board regarding this passage were pretty crafty. :grin:

When I go to the store today I will, if possible, buy you some milk. There are some variables as to whether or not it will be possible. Will the store be out of milk? Will I have enough money? etc...

The phrase "if possible" does not mean it is impossible but rather if certain conditions are met it is certaintly possible. In fact, Jesus warned His disciples in the very same chapter of falling away and being deceived.

age?"
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.
Mat 24:5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.

Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
Mat 24:10 "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
Mat 24:11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
Mat 24:12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
Mat 24:13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

BUT yet it is impossible? hmmm

Mat 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There {He is,}' do not believe {him.}
Mat 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
Mat 24:25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.
Mat 24:26 "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, {or,} 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe {them.}

BEHOLD, I HAVE TOLD YOU IN ADVANCE... DO NOT BELIEVE THEM.

Why the warning?

away.
Luk 21:34 "Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap;
Luk 21:35 for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth.
Luk 21:36 "But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Don't worry about praying, it's impossible anyway.... Yikes

by **Downpour** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:41 am

Water, if it where not possible Jesus would have told us, not to worry about it, because it would not affect us. But that's not what Jesus does all throughout Matthew 24, He tells us over and over again , not to be deceived, don't let anyone deceive you, He makes it a point to tell us "not to be deceived". If it were not possible, than He wouldn't repeat it so many times.

Our salvation is a free gift of God, that He offers to us, it is up to us to accept or reject it. If we are saved, but we still have a choice, free will, our free will does not end when we accept God's gift. Some will end up throwing the gift away.

by **water** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:02 am

Interesting insights.

by **mabell28** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:21 pm

I have a question however. The dominance of the Catholic church was a huge "falling away"...how does that fall into this? (Without hashing out the specifics however).

I believe the great falling away will be enforced, by government, with the leadership of all churches backing it, guidelines on how to worship...which will cause an exclusion of Christ.

Remember that most non-Christians...non true Christians, don't understand what it means to be a Christian, the doctrine of need of Jesus death and sacrifice. So everyone will wonder why we Christians have a problem with worship of a "monotheistic" God....like the Jews and Muslims have....it is the deity of Christ that will be a falling away, and the change somehow, or denegration of the 10 commandments.

Michael

by **huhts** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:28 pm

mushwog wrote:Just forgot to mention that I feel closer to God right now in my life than ever, Im a clown and I see God more in the faces of children than in any chruch or orginization I've been too....

Jesus did say that the kingdom of god is such as these refering to the children.

by **njfishwatchTurkey&Isr** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:58 pm

Hey Abiding in His Word,

Well....the fact that some believe the apostasy has already started is at least an indication that they are alert and watching the numerous false teachings, right? Not necessarily a negative I think.

True. I just believe the great apostasy, the deception spoken of by Jesus, is going to be so massive that we have never seen anything like it...probably can't even imagine it. It will literaly be a massive falling away from the faith by christians we know and love. We ourselves could easily be part of this great falling away which is why we need to pray that we can spiritually escape that time to be able to stand before Christ. We need to put on the whole armor of God to withstand the evil day.

Most of us on this board are not into many of the false teachings that are prevelant today (Purpose driven life, Benny Hinn, Paula White, and on and on). It is "easy" for us to identify that which is false and to stand firm for sound doctrine, however; the great apostasy will be a much different trial...it will be standing over you with a sword, standing over your child with a sword, hunger leading to death due to not being able to buy or sell, signs and wonders- fire coming from heaven etc... We just need to be aware of what is coming and prepare for it. If we don't realize what is coming it is hard to put on the whole armor.

by **water** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:09 pm

njfishwatchTurkey&Isr wrote:True. I just believe the great apostasy, the deception spoken of by Jesus, is going to be so massive that we have never seen anything like it...probably can't even imagine it. It will literaly be a massive falling away from the faith by christians we know and love. We ourselves could easily be part of this great falling away which is why we need to pray that we can spiritually escape that time to be able to stand before Christ. We need to put on the whole armor of God to withstand the evil day.

I agree, the Lord said it would be a very troubling time, so we can count on it.

I also count on the Lord to sustain me, and that he has given me a spirit of strength, not of fear.

We need to be beacons for the lost during the soon coming terrible times.

by **huhts** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:36 pm

it'll come down to whether we can willingly accept death (maybe torture) based on faith, which by worldly logic makes no sense, which I'll be the first to admit will be most trying for me. I've built too much in this worlds knowledge, that I won't be able to just throw it away without thinking, it's an everyday struggle, but by God's strength, I can endure.

by **Abiding in His Word** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:03 pm

njfishwatchTurkey&Isr wrote:True. I just believe the great apostasy, the deception spoken of by Jesus, is going to be so massive that we have never seen anything like it...probably can't even imagine it. It will literaly be a massive falling away from the faith by christians we know and love. We ourselves could easily be part of this great falling away which is why we need to pray that we can spiritually escape that time to be able to stand before Christ. We need to put on the whole armor of God to withstand the evil day.

Yes. The very nature of deception is it's ability to deceive. :mrgreen:

Most of us on this board are not into many of the false teachings that are prevelant today (Purpose driven life, Benny Hinn, Paula White, and on and on). It is "easy" for us to identify that which is false and to stand firm for sound doctrine, however; the great apostasy will be a much different trial..

Well, a good many members came out of false teachings like the ones you mentioned above and others. Some didn't find it too easy, but thankfully were eventually able to find the truth by comparing the teachings with the Word for themselves.

it will be standing over you with a sword, standing over your child with a sword, hunger leading to death due to not being able to buy or sell, signs and wonders- fire coming from heaven etc... We just need to be aware of what is coming and prepare for it. If we don't realize what is coming it is hard to put on the whole armor.

Are we equating the apostasy with the tribulation?

by **Downpour** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:22 pm

huhts wrote:

it'll come down to whether we can willingly accept death (maybe torture) based on faith, which by worldly logic makes no sense, which I'll be the first to admit will be most trying for me. I've built too much in this worlds knowledge, that I won't be able to just throw it away without thinking, it's an everyday struggle, but by God's strength, I can endure.

That's what it will come down to. We must but our whole being in the Lord's hands. We must rely on Him no matter what, and be grounded in His Word, and know His Word is truth. Some will not be able to make it, it may be to hard for them, for whatever reason. Only those who truly trust in the Lord will make it. Perseverance through trials and tribulations, that's what the Lord expects of us.

by **nickylouse** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:57 pm

MaryALice wrote:I read somewhere on this website that Celebrate Recovery is a rick warren teaching also? Is that true?

Celebrate Recovery is a "works-based" recovery program similar to AA that came out of Saddleback. It is less politically correct than AA, which seeks not to offend anyone who may be dealing with habitual sin.

It expands on Step 1 of AA to say that our powerlessness is due to "our separation from God". However, Step 2 still refers to Him as a mere power and Steps 3 and 11 still includes the statement "as we understood Him" in reference to God. Steps 5, 6, and 7 stop short of referring to our sinful habits as sin and instead softsells them as the "nature of our wrongs", "defects of character", and "shortcomings".

Though I think Step 12 is the enslaving part of the program. It says that recoverers continue recovering due to their own "spiritual awakening as the result of these steps" and because they "tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles." And that is what enslaves them. I don't think they are ever taught that they can be delivered from the grip that sin has had on them by the power of Him through whom all blessings flow. This Step 12 is akin to a Jehovah Witness being saved by the number of recruits they find. It is only by the working of the program that they think they can recover.

The whole program is about behavior modification instead of glorifying God by acknowledging our sin against Him and having a contrite heart and godly sorrow. Recoverers are taught to be sorry that their "lives had become unmanageable". It seeks to shift blame onto the environment a person lives in rather than on the individual. In one session I attended, I was told that "this isn't a Bible study" when I began to cite biblical references to others for encouragement. The session was being held at my church and I was reprimanded for citing the Bible??
:banned:

Overall though it is not as bad as other step-programs. It does contain a Gospel message in there somewhere, if you can hear it through all of the psycho-babble.

by **Disciple** on Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:43 pm

We have felt the ever increasing effects of apostasy as well. We left our church due to false teaching, hyper-charismania, and heavy-handed authoritarianism. We simply cannot find a church that hasn't been tainted by emergent, formation, purpose-driven, "Christain" mysticism, contemplative prayer...you name it. We are even seeing churches start their own prayer labyrinths here. It is absolutely crazy to see so many seraching after an experience rather than search the Scripture... I would suggest checking out the Lighthouse Trails Research Project website. It is very informative and a great resource. Also, there is one called Eastern Regional Watch that I have found to be a great help. Be like the Bereans (Acts 17:11) Search out the scriptures daily...test all things. Blessings to you and yours.

by **water** on Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:20 am

Was Paul "seeker-sensitive"?

1 Colossians 4:2 Devote yourselves to prayer with an alert mind and a thankful heart. 3 Pray for us, too, that God will give us many opportunities to speak about his mysterious plan concerning Christ. That is why I am here in chains. 4 Pray that I will proclaim this message as clearly as I should.
5 Live wisely among those who are not believers, and make the most of every opportunity. 6 Let your conversation be gracious and attractive[a] so that you will have the right response for everyone.

The only reason I bring this up is that sometimes I sense such a revulsion towards reaching out to the lost that, IMHO, it goes too far.

I am not saying I see this in any posts or posters here, but I felt lead to remind everyone that we need to remember how Jesus operated with respect to sinners.

Yes, Jesus made it plain...the wage of sin is death. To avoid that truth is a fatal mistake.

But Jesus also dined with the worst kind of sinners. He reached out to them. He met them on their turf.

Sometimes people want to act like the pharisees, saying knowledge of the law and the Path to salvation is sufficient.

That is not how Jesus operated, and I believe that every word and act of Jesus was a carefully considered example by God himself for us to follow.

by **mark s** on Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:57 am

1 Timothy 4:1-3
(1) But the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, cleaving to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons,
(2) in lying speakers in hypocrisy, being seared in their own conscience,
(3) forbidding to marry, saying to abstain from foods, which God created for partaking with thanksgiving by the believers and those knowing the truth. (LITV)

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
1Ti 4:2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared,
1Ti 4:3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. (ESV)

What will the last-days apostasy look like?

In a word, false teaching. False teachers who lie and don't care that they lie. False teachers who have departed from the faith taught by the Holy Spirit, to reach out to, hold on to, cleave to, give heed to, literally "hold towards", spirits who deceive, and their deceptive teachings, the doctrines of demons.

As a cornerstone passages on the end-times apostasy, this speaks not only of what they move away from, but what they move towards.

The only specifics given here are "forbidding to marry", and "abstaining from foods". How much should we extend this? Legalism in all forms? Other teachings put forth by those well-know churches who teach these things? Or simply the everwhelming rise in false teaching of all forms?

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Swindlers, cheats, Robertson describes these "seducers" as "imposters who know all the tricks of the trade".

Love in Christ,
Mark

by **carpentersdaughter** on Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:57 am

Two frogs sitting in a pan of boiling water.

One says, I wonder what it will be like when Jesus comes back, the other frog yells out don't you know things will be so bad we'll see it everywhere.

As the two boil away, they don't see that the grave situation is at hand already.

Do we think the trumpets will sound as birth pangs get harder and harder?

This world is in a great spiritual battle, and the earth is heaving from the sins of mankind.

We can be like the two frogs and wonder when the harder events will happen or we can look around and see that we are already there and things are getting worse.

by **Passion** on Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:04 pm

Good one!

by **Passion** on Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:15 pm

MaryALice wrote:I hear you guys! That in itself is comforting to know that it's not just me.

I live in a fairly large city outside of St.Louis...... Or is it a large county outside of St.Louis? lol Where ever I'm at.......... There should be a church with in a reasonable distance from me you would think. This Rick Warren is a blessing... becuase as soon as I hear the church is preacihing on his book, it is saves me so much time in finding the exit door. The church that I attend occassionally has recently started Celebrate Recovery.... Which I thought was ok.... It's a ministry.... But when I go to church on a Sunday, and the entire message is "Celebrate Recovery" and they plan on doing it for the next 4 weeks..... It gets me down... Then I read somewhere on this website that Celebrate Recovery is a rick warren teaching also? Is that true?

What nickylouse said is true, unfortunately. If your church is doing Celebrate Recovery, you might want to find that exit door now, rather than sitting through 12 weeks of heretical, psychobabble sermons like we did!

See, we were dumb enough to think that once the stupid 12-week series was over, the pastor would get back to some decent preaching. He did--once or twice. But the vast majority of sermons continued to be psychobabble going on and on about how every one of us is an addict in one way or another, and in dire need of a 12-step program--CR, of course (and from what I was told by someone still there, this hasn't changed). And don't forget, the most vile, vicious, and murderous people in the Bible got that way because of "inferiority complexes" and "low self-esteem". Good grief. :disappointed:

It hurts to think of the people we came to love still in that church, refusing to leave.....on the other hand, I guess they're being willfully ignorant--"Deceived On Purpose". As are so many.

by **geauxsaints** on Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:18 pm

Shouldn't the apostasy that precedes the coming of the AC be different from others in history? There has been groups that 'fell away' from the beginning of the churches history.

In the 18th and 19th centuries 'The Age of Reason' and 'The Age of Enlightenment' was a really hot topic. It led to millions of people falling away. Atheism, evolution, and communism all sprung from those times. Those times were so trying to faith that christian groups who were often opposed to each other had to unite to defend the basics of faith and a belief in God.

I tend to think that if its a 'Great Apostasy' it will not be a gradual thing. There will be something that sparks a huge turning away from the faith.

by **water** on Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:49 pm

geauxsaints wrote:I tend to think that if its a 'Great Apostasy' it will not be a gradual thing. There will be something that sparks a huge turning away from the faith.

I think it will be both. I think the world in general will be in a state that is as the days of Noah...but something will happen that will absolutely fool all who do not know the Truth through and through.

In reality...all those who have ignored the call of the Lord will be absolutely taken by what happens.

The False Prophet...the one that supports the AC...who does signs and wonders and miracles. Many will follow him because they have already rejected the Truth.

by **notforhimself** on Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:34 pm

carpentersdaughter wrote:Two frogs sitting in a pan of boiling water.

One says, I wonder what it will be like when Jesus comes back, the other frog yells out don't you know things will be so bad we'll see it everywhere.

As the two boil away, they don't see that the grave situation is at hand already.

Do we think the trumpets will sound as birth pangs get harder and harder?

This world is in a great spiritual battle, and the earth is heaving from the sins of mankind.

We can be like the two frogs and wonder when the harder events will happen or we can look around and see that we are already there and things are getting worse.

This is priceless!

What will the "coming apostasy" look like?

What will the "coming apostasy" look like?

Re: What will the "coming apostasy" look like?

The great falling away!

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