The Four Winds of Heaven - Standing Before the Lord

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The Four Winds of Heaven - Standing Before the Lord

Postby mark s on Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:44 pm

We are familiar with the Four Horseman of the Apokolypse, which ride forth as Jesus opens the first four seals of the scroll in Rev. 6.

In Zechariah 6 is recorded an interesting vision in relation to these seals, particulary the four horsemen.

1 “And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass. 2 In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses; 3 And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses. 4 Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord? 5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits (heb. ruwach equally wind or spirit, and so could read “the four winds”) of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.”

The prophet continues to prophesy what these will do as they go to and fro through the earth. But there are several other mentions of these "four 'ruach' of heaven".

Lets look at the other times these "four winds/spirits of heaven" are mentioned:

Jeremiah 49:36 - The four winds scatter Persia
Ezekiel 37:39 – They breathe life into Israel
Daniel 7:2 – They bring out the beast from the sea
Daniel 8:8 the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven
Daniel 11:4 – his kingdom is divided to the four winds of heaven
Zechariah 2:6 – I have spread you abroad as the four winds of heaven
Matthew 24:31 & Mark 13:27 – He gathers His elect from the four winds

All of these passages refer to nations and governments: Scattering among the nations, gathering back from the nations, raising up a ruler, handing rule from one to others. There are of geo-political change, as God controls the courses of nations.

And now, finally, in Revelation, we see these horseman, one with a politial agenda, one with a military agenda, one with an economic agenda, one with a environmental agenda, sent forth by the hand of our Lord, at a time that He has established for the salvation of Israel.

Now, the reason I bring this up, we often think of the first horseman, the rider of the white horse, as the antichrist, even though the Bible never calls him that.

But hear what Zechariah says:

Zec 6:5 And the angel answered and said to me, These are the four spirits of Heaven who go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.

Are then these horseman these four spirits of heaven who go forth from standing before the Lord?

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Postby RomaLynnStar on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:28 pm

How interesting Mark, just listened to a teaching on this one.

Little different take on the horse colors in the four horses of the revelation and the spirits they represent in the earth though.

And he also used the scripture from Zechariah, the only thing is I am trying to determine the pale horse in Revealtion compared to the last chairot, in Zechariah, which says they are grisled and bay.

From what I find regarding this color, it is like spotted, and then a musty red horse. This is from a horse site, which described the bay this way.
From wikipedia: Bay is a hair coat color of horses, characterized by a reddish brown body color with a black mane, tail and lower legs. Bay is one of the most common coat colors in many horse breeds.


Hebrew, bay
1) strong
2) bay, dappled, piebald (of colour)

grisled
1) spotted, marked

and the pale horse, in Revelation, pale is in greek, chloros, which is of course green as you noted.

Ok, as you see I am still studying this one out. But good thing to study for sure. Thanks for starting this one.
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Postby mark s on Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:55 pm

RomaLynnStar wrote:How interesting Mark, just listened to a teaching on this one.

Little different take on the horse colors in the four horses of the revelation and the spirits they represent in the earth though.

And he also used the scripture from Zechariah, the only thing is I am trying to determine the pale horse in Revealtion compared to the last chairot, in Zechariah, which says they are grisled and bay.

From what I find regarding this color, it is like spotted, and then a musty red horse. This is from a horse site, which described the bay this way.
From wikipedia: Bay is a hair coat color of horses, characterized by a reddish brown body color with a black mane, tail and lower legs. Bay is one of the most common coat colors in many horse breeds.


Hebrew, bay
1) strong
2) bay, dappled, piebald (of colour)

grisled
1) spotted, marked

and the pale horse, in Revelation, pale is in greek, chloros, which is of course green as you noted.

Ok, as you see I am still studying this one out. But good thing to study for sure. Thanks for starting this one.


Hi Roma,

Yeah, this is a good question. From what I've been able to determine, "Bay" should read "strong", referring to the color, as in the LXX. "Grizzled", or spotted, can be thought of as "mixed colors", and in comparison to the "pale horse", there are a mixture of methods in which death will come.

I'm interested in what you heard about the four spirits in the Revelation horses. I realize this isn't the only way to look at it.

Love in Christ,
mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Postby RomaLynnStar on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:04 pm

And now, finally, in Revelation, we see these horseman, one with a politial agenda, one with a military agenda, one with an economic agenda, one with a environmental agenda, sent forth by the hand of our Lord, at a time that He has established for the salvation of Israel.

Now, the reason I bring this up, we often think of the first horseman, the rider of the white horse, as the antichrist, even though the Bible never calls him that.


Four horsemen of the apocolypse in this study are:

White: Catholicism, a bow with no arrows and the pope given a crown when the Holy Roman Empire rose, with Charlemagne, conquers by religion, all of the things associated with the Pope seem to be white, which is true.

Red: Communism -Taking peace from the earth with politics and the great sword,

Black: Capitalism, which with the pair of balances which indicate commerce and trade, seems right.

And then Pale-which means Green: Islam, their color is green, and their idea that death as a martyr is good and the only way to heaven, and he is given power over a fourth part of the earth, which it seems that now almost a fourth of the earth has embraced Islam.

Anyway, still studying this one. I know the environmental agenda could be green, but I do not see so much Death and Hades with it, except if they succeed in stopping all the use of the industrialized nations, death would follow I guess.

Well, like I said still praying and studying on this one for sure.
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Postby mark s on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:11 pm

It didn't even occur to me that I was making the green horse "green"!! :mrgreen:

I thought of the environment as being the overall characteristic of wild animals, pestilence, famine, and the sword.

So it seems the study you heard gives an historical interpretation of these. I still think they are future.

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Postby RomaLynnStar on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:14 pm

Well I see them as historical, present, and also future myself.

We still have all of them around, right. And they sure can affect how Israel is dealt with.
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Postby mark s on Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:23 pm

RomaLynnStar wrote:Well I see them as historical, present, and also future myself.

We still have all of them around, right. And they sure can affect how Israel is dealt with.


Ok, I see that I'm going to have to expand my thinking to match my theory!

This thread is starting to make me feel foolish! Well, no matter! I need to cogitate on this some more.

I sure appreciate your input!

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Postby RomaLynnStar on Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:42 pm

No reason to feel foolish, this is a really good thing to bring up and get to studying cause I feel it is important to us also.

So keep at it with me, we need to study it out. Thanks
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Postby kazbo on Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:26 pm

Lets look at the other times these "four winds/spirits of heaven" are mentioned:

Jeremiah 49:36 - The four winds scatter Persia
Ezekiel 37:39 – They breathe life into Israel
Daniel 7:2 – They bring out the beast from the sea
Daniel 8:8 the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven
Daniel 11:4 – his kingdom is divided to the four winds of heaven
Zechariah 2:6 – I have spread you abroad as the four winds of heaven
Matthew 24:31 & Mark 13:27 – He gathers His elect from the four winds


How about Revelation 7:1-3?

After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God."

Are the four angels the same as the four winds being restrained? And are they the four horsemen?

Interesting thread.
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Postby mark s on Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:56 am

kazbo wrote:
Lets look at the other times these "four winds/spirits of heaven" are mentioned:

Jeremiah 49:36 - The four winds scatter Persia
Ezekiel 37:39 – They breathe life into Israel
Daniel 7:2 – They bring out the beast from the sea
Daniel 8:8 the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven
Daniel 11:4 – his kingdom is divided to the four winds of heaven
Zechariah 2:6 – I have spread you abroad as the four winds of heaven
Matthew 24:31 & Mark 13:27 – He gathers His elect from the four winds


How about Revelation 7:1-3?

After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God."

Are the four angels the same as the four winds being restrained? And are they the four horsemen?

Interesting thread.


Hi Kazbo,

If so, it would seem that the effects of these four horsemen wouldn't become active until the firstfruits of Israel are sealed.

While this says, "the four winds of the earth", its a very intruiging connection to make.

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Postby mark s on Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:58 am

Hi Roma,

Do you think that this is the significance behind the same sorts of things, "false Christs, wars, famine, pestilence" being called "birth pangs" in Matthew 24?

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Postby kazbo on Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:37 pm

While this says, "the four winds of the earth", its a very intruiging connection to make.


Oh DUH! I was so focused on "four winds" I didn't notice the "of the earth" part.

Still, it's just as intriguing either way.
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Postby carpentersdaughter on Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:16 am

I use to breed and show appaloosa horses.

Bay was the one color we didn't breed with because genetically, it is the most dominant color gene of all colors, then gray being almost as strong.

So, if we wanted a foal with color ( Spots) we looked into the genology of the parents to make sure Bay and Gray were not found.

Studying color genes in Appaloosa breeding is a must if you want success in getting those spots.
1 Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in the later times some will abondon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
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Postby mark s on Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:24 am

carpentersdaughter wrote:I use to breed and show appaloosa horses.

Bay was the one color we didn't breed with because genetically, it is the most dominant color gene of all colors, then gray being almost as strong.

So, if we wanted a foal with color ( Spots) we looked into the genology of the parents to make sure Bay and Gray were not found.

Studying color genes in Appaloosa breeding is a must if you want success in getting those spots.


That's interesting! So, what color is Bay?
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Postby carpentersdaughter on Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:00 am

Bay is redish brown with black main and tail, with black going up to the knees on the horse.

Next time you are out on a drive, check out horses in a pasture. Most will be Bay.
1 Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in the later times some will abondon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
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Postby mark s on Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:09 am

carpentersdaughter wrote:Bay is redish brown with black main and tail, with black going up to the knees on the horse.

Next time you are out on a drive, check out horses in a pasture. Most will be Bay.


Yeah, I've seen those a lot. Mostly in parades. I live in Orange County. We used to have horses. We used to have orange trees.

Love in Christ,
Mark
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Postby Ready1 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:57 pm

(Do you still have avocados? mmmmm!)
Just observing.

E.
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Postby RomaLynnStar on Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:37 pm

Say I didn't forget this one, still working on it. Will post more later.
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Postby mark s on Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:57 am

Ready1 wrote:(Do you still have avocados? mmmmm!)


There are still some here and there - so we are able to survive!
ειπεν αυτη ο ιησους εγω ειμι η αναστασις και η ζωη ο πιστευων εις εμε καν αποθανη ζησεται
. . . saying to her Jesus, I AM the resurrection and the life, the one believing into Me even dying shall live . . .
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Postby RomaLynnStar on Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:58 pm

Say marks

Sorry I have been away from this one a few days. Working on something else. You know shorttribber just mentioned this one in something he/she is trying to share in another thread. You were on there too. I pmd to offer a bit of help with the computer. Anyway, just heard someone say winds in the bible means wars.

Okay this is what he says: still working on it
seas nations or peoples
beasts kingdoms
winds wars

Now I need to see if I can follow that through with the winds where we are looking I guess. It is tough to tell sometimes when something is literal and when symbolic. But I for sure had seen that seas meant people , nations before,
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Postby RomaLynnStar on Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:07 pm

Well just looked up winds in the strong's concordance and it sure does not seem to say to me wars.

Now I guess maybe, you know I was not very sure this guy really knew exactly the right thing, but will keep working on it for sure.

1) wind, a violent agitation and stream of air

2) a very strong tempestuous wind

3) the four principal or cardinal winds, hence the four corners of heaven

This is what is translated for winds in Jude and Rev 7

Need to look it up in Strong's also.
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Postby RomaLynnStar on Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:16 pm

417 anemos { an’-em-os}

from the base of 109;; n m

AV - wind 31; 31

GK - 449 { a[nemo" }

1) wind, a violent agitation and stream of air
2) a very strong tempestuous wind
3) the four principal or cardinal winds, hence the four corners of heaven



109 aer { ah-ayr’}

from aemi (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire, by analogy, to blow); TDNT - 1:165,25; n m

AV - air 7; 7

GK - 113 { ajhvr }

1) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air
2) the atmospheric region


Okay this is from my Logos Bible software. No wars here at all. Maybe this guy is off the rocker on some of the others thing he said also.
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Postby RomaLynnStar on Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:20 pm

7307 ruwach { roo’-akh}

from 7306; TWOT - 2131a; n f

AV - Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4, vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6; 378

GK - 8120 { j'Wr
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1b1) of heaven
1b2) quarter (of wind), side
1b3) breath of air
1b4) air, gas
1b5) vain, empty thing
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1c7) prophetic spirit
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God’s spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character
1g) spirit of God
1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
1g4) as endowing men with various gifts
1g5) as energy of life
1g6) ancient angel and later Shekinah


7306 ruwach { roo’-akh}

a primitive root; TWOT - 2131; v

AV - smell 8, touch 1, quick understanding 1, accept 1; 11

GK - 8193 { j'yri
}*

1) (Hiphil) to smell, scent, perceive odour, accept
1a) of horse
1b) of delight (metaph)


Now this is the Hebrew Strongs, from Zec 2:6

1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power


I do not know now, Mark s, what do you think on this one. I will see if this is the same in Daniel
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