Why the Islamic Antichrist Theory Matters

[good4u1]

As a well-known prophecy teacher, my email inbox is frequently full of questions, comments and news articles from those interested in biblical prophecy. While some of these emails are certainly helpful and interesting, there are also many that I would put into the category of “biblical prophecy as morbid trivia.” What I mean is that there are many believers who are overly fixated on discussing the many intricate details concerning the many dark events looming on the horizon. Now, to be clear, I say this as someone who deeply values biblical prophecy, but I will be the first to admit that much of what passes for biblical prophecy today is a mixture of conspiracy theories and extra-biblical concepts with only a thin ribbon of biblical passages intertwined throughout, so as to give it the appearance of credibility. I will also be the first to acknowledge that there are numerous Christians who have lost their way, having become completely distracted from the primary mandate of the Christian church, which is the proclamation of the gospel of the Kingdom – in both word and deed.


On the other hand, there are many Christians, who have overreacted to the unhealthy emphasis of some and now avoid the subject of biblical prophecy altogether. This is equally grievous. The Lord did not fill the pages of the Bible with prophecy because he wanted us to avoid the subject.

Although there are numerous highly relevant reasons for Christians to study biblical prophecy, I would like to use the remainder of this article to touch on just one deeply relevant reason specifically as to why the emerging Islamic Antichrist theory is so essential for the church to get a hold of. In brief, the answer is because the future of the missions movement depends on it. Allow me explain.

Today there are approximately 6.7 billion people in the world. Roughly 2.2 billion consider themselves Christians. This number is divided almost evenly in half between Roman Catholics and Protestants (with about 240 million Eastern Orthodox believers). There are also close to a billion secularists without a religion, a little less than a billion Hindus and only about 500 million Buddhists. The number of Muslims globally however is approximately 1.6 billion. This means that Muslims are far and away, the largest non-Christian people group in the world. More than any other people group in the world, Muslims need the gospel. The Islamic world needs missionaries. So one would expect the church to be obedient to the Great Commission of Jesus as found in Matthew 28:19 among Muslims:

“Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Such, however, is far from the case. Although the Islamic world represents the greatest need, it has the least number of missionaries. In fact, on average, for every 1 million Muslims, there is only one Christian missionary! This is an absolute scandal, and I have no question that heaven is not pleased.

Now, while there is more than one reason why Christians are not going to the Islamic world, I want to touch on one very popular theological idea, a prophetic scenario actually, that is deeply demotivating a multitude of potential missionaries within many mainstream denominations from pursuing missions and church-planting among Muslims.

Briefly, this prophetic scenario holds that a series of imminent wars, most often referred to “the Psalm 83 War,” followed immediately by the “Battle of Gog of Magog” will soon result in the complete annihilation of most Muslims in the Middle East and Islam as a religion essentially drying up and fading away. This scenario is not some oddball prophetic interpretation, but is widely taught by numerous very well-known Christian leaders and teachers. Consider below just a small sampling of quotes from some such prophecy teachers, as it relates to future of the Islamic world:

“[T]he war of Ezekiel 38 will result in the annihilation of nearly all the armies of the Muslim nations of the Middle East. … Thus, if the Antichrist is a Muslim who is going to rule a Muslim empire in the Middle East during the Tribulation, then he is going to rule over an empire that has been reduced to ashes!” (David Reagan)

“I believe that the Ezekiel 38-39 war plays a key role in the rise of the Antichrist. It is clear in this passage that Iran and the Muslim coalition suffers a humiliating defeat. I believe God will use this war to bring the ultimate downfall of the Islamic religion and the false god Allah.” (Randy White)

“The elimination of this Russian-Islamic alliance and all their troops will pave the way for the Antichrist to posture himself to take over the world.” (Mark Hitchcock)

“Islam is just another system that will be wiped out before the Antichrist instills his system.” (Nathan Jones)

There is power in prophecy. What prophecy teachers teach has widespread and lasting implications. This teaching that Islam is about to disappear is truly destructive to the completion of the Great Commission among Muslims. And what makes matters worse is that the idea of the Battle of Gog of Magog as a distinct and separate battle from the final battles of the Antichrist described elsewhere throughout the prophets can easily be shown to be a bogus interpretation.

In my new book, “Mideast Beast: The Scriptural Case for an Islamic Antichrist,” I walk the reader carefully through the prophecies of Ezekiel 38 and 39 (The Battle of Gog of Magog), Psalm 83 and many others, so as to thoroughly dispel this false idea that the Islamic world and religion is about to face “annihilation” or “will be wiped out.”

In fact, if there is one primary underlying point I would wish to make with my newest book and which I am struggling to awaken the Christian church regarding, it is the simple fact that Islam is the single greatest challenge the church will face before the return of Jesus. But until he returns, it is not going away.

The mandate of the church at this moment in history is to rise to meet the challenge of Islam. Now is not the time for armchair prophecy-enthusiast Christians to sit back and passively await the destruction of the Islamic world.

Numerous Western Christians today are openly calling for war with Iran, yet few are aware of the fact that Iran is experiencing the single greatest Christian revival in the world!

Now is not the time to pray for the judgment of the Islamic world. Now is the time for the church to lift up their eyes and recognize the fact that the fields are white unto harvest and pray that the Lord of the harvest would send laborers into the fields! (Matthew 9:37-38; John 4:35)

It’s time that the church casts these false and deeply demotivating interpretations of prophecy into the waste basket. Hundreds of millions of souls are depending on it.

Joel Richardson

http://archives.joelstrumpet.com/?p=3698

[Exit40]

Thanks for the article GFU. Always happy to be part of the ensuing debate when you post these.

God Bless You

David

[lamb7]

It’s sort of ironic that there are Christians who believe the Antichrist will be Muslim, when the Muslim ‘prophecies’ claim he will be Jewish. This from a site that is investigating the theory of a Muslim Antichrist,

" The Muslim Antichrist Theory: An Evaluation" by Dr. David R. Reagan, as per Joel Richardson and Walid Shoebot. It’s an interesting article…I’m still reading as I type. The quote below is from the list of “End Time Specifics” a bit down the page.

1) The Appearance of the Antichrist, called the Dajjal.
He will be a Jew born in Iran to parents who have been childless for 30 years. He will have only one eye. He will claim to be a prophet, and then he will claim to be divine. He will deceive many by his godliness and his miracles. He will go forth with an army of 70,000 Jews and 70,000 Tartars, and he will conquer all the world except Mecca and Medina. His reign will last for 40 days during a time when one day will be like a year. Some passages of the Hadith indicate that he will have the word "Infidel" written on his forehead. His reign is characterized by cruelty and deceit. He has a militaristic mentality. His purpose is to be deified, worshiped, and to reign.11

http://www.lamblion.com/articles/articles_islam6.php

[Exit40]

Hi Lamb7. Not ironic, but looking backwards in a clouded mirror to see where your forward direction is. It is very obvious the koran is the subverted version of Scripture, written from and appealing to the carnal nature of man, primarily the man of the vast desert expanses of the ME. Where to you think they got the one eyed dajaal from ? Here's my best assessment...

Zec 11:17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword [shall be] upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

Comparison of Scripture with the koran reveals many such apparent contradictions, twists, and turns to the Truth so as to deceive the readers. Yes, the religion of peace that says respect the people of ' The Book' turns and says kills the Jews and infidel Christians, if they don't believe the koran and convert to islam. This is more than a belief to them, they actually do it, just as Scripture states they will. But there will be remnants of these people who will believe the Truth, maybe about one sixth overall, and they will be for the Glory of God, chosen also by Him.

God Bless You

David

[lamb7]

Hi Lamb7. Not ironic, but looking backwards in a clouded mirror to see where your forward direction is. It is very obvious the koran is the subverted version of Scripture, written from and appealing to the carnal nature of man, primarily the man of the vast desert expanses of the ME. Where to you think they got the one eyed dajaal from ? Here's my best assessment...

Zec 11:17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword [shall be] upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

Comparison of Scripture with the koran reveals many such apparent contradictions, twists, and turns to the Truth so as to deceive the readers. Yes, the religion of peace that says respect the people of ' The Book' turns and says kills the Jews and infidel Christians, if they don't believe the koran and convert to islam. This is more than a belief to them, they actually do it, just as Scripture states they will. But there will be remnants of these people who will believe the Truth, maybe about one sixth overall, and they will be for the Glory of God, chosen also by Him.

God Bless You

David

Ah, David, I was hoping you would comment. Are you saying that this Hadith is purposely stating the Antichrist is a Jew in order to deceive? Interesting. Could you explain the motive behind this so that I can see it from a Christian perspective. I really don't know anything about the Muslim culture or their beliefs, hence why I found this article both informative and interesting. Because of the many similarities and the contradictions, it is hard to understand the order and meaning sometimes from their perspective in the context of what the Bible tells us and from the timeline of prophecy and events that are pretty much etched within the Christian heart. Again, are they using our God's Word against us and the world by copying so much of it into their own faith in order to use this deceit convincingly? And what would be the 'endgame', meaning what are they trying to deceive us into believing? I don't mean the idea that they believe Jesus is not the son of God or to convert, but if not to convert what lie is it and what would be the outcome?

Geesh, even I don't understand what I just wrote. My thoughts are not coming out so clearly as my daughter and I are headed off to the doctor's office within the hour, but I didn't want to lose my train of thought, however muddled up it seems from my words here. lol.

[Exit40]

Ah, David, I was hoping you would comment. Are you saying that this Hadith is purposely stating the Antichrist is a Jew in order to deceive? Interesting. Could you explain the motive behind this so that I can see it from a Christian perspective. I really don't know anything about the Muslim culture or their beliefs, hence why I found this article both informative and interesting. Because of the many similarities and the contradictions, it is hard to understand the order and meaning sometimes from their perspective in the context of what the Bible tells us and from the timeline of prophecy and events that are pretty much etched within the Christian heart. Again, are they using our God's Word against us and the world by copying so much of it into their own faith in order to use this deceit convincingly? And what would be the 'endgame', meaning what are they trying to deceive us into believing? I don't mean the idea that they believe Jesus is not the son of God or to convert, but if not to convert what lie is it and what would be the outcome?

Geesh, even I don't understand what I just wrote. My thoughts are not coming out so clearly as my daughter and I are headed off to the doctor's office within the hour, but I didn't want to lose my train of thought, however muddled up it seems from my words here. lol.

Hi Lamb7. The whole concept in the midst of the confusion is, who has God's birthright and title to the land. Ishmael and Esau's descendants, evidently the arabs and peoples of the ME who are not Jewish, claim it is theirs, Jews claim it is theirs, Christians are grafted in to the Jews birthright so it is theirs also, by Grace through Faith in Christ Jesus. It's also about consequently, arab exceptionalism/supremacism granted by the koran and through shariah law, this spreading to general muslim exceptionalism which we can see developing rapidly in Turkey which they in turn are spreading ( the wealth of ). The very purpose of the koran and hadiths is to corrupt the Scriptures of Truth in mens minds so they will believe and perform the very things Scripture states they will, for refusing to believe the Truth. Islam's ultimate goal is the subjugation of the whole world to islam, with their 'rightly guided one' in charge. This one will be, according to them, so full of allah's truths he will literally glow from his presence. Scriptures state satan appears as an angel of light. Hmmm, not quite sure what to think about this yet. Lot's of humanism here too, as islam states such a closeness can be achieved by many who would be under the 'one' . But remember too, islam is carnal, misogynist, therefore also humanist with a twist. For instance, a muslim male martyr enters paradise , a place which closely resembles a desert oasis, and gets 72 virgins to dote over him. A muslim woman gets her old husband back. What a gyp !

Islam has begun to reform, but not as you might think. The Arab spring is geopolitical, with it's underpinnings being the attempts to modernize their thought and belief into a collective empire/caliphate that uses the systems and institutions of today to first achieve parity, then to subvert them into sharia, the goal as mentioned above, world dominance. Each nation and people are headed this way, my belief being they must, as Scripture states what they become once together, a league or confederation, and this is a possible method for that to be fulfilled.

I read Dr Reagan's article and found it to disheartening. It has many logical fallacies, the most important one being ad hominem attacks. Why does he feel it necessary to do this if all his ducks are lined up properly, that being Scripture clearly states what he is saying ? He goes on with ad numerum, ad populam, and ad antiquitatem arguments with some various doses of circular reasoning. Thanks but no thanks, this has ruled out me paying attention to the bulk of the article, not to say there are no points to be considered for their validity in their own right. He and JR have become each others nemesis, instigated by Dr Reagan by the way some time ago, but truthfully, I haven't seen this type of vitriol coming from JR at any time, acknowledging I probably haven't seen everything written between these two.

I have JR's new book, haven't been able to get into it yet, and I also want to say I don't agree entirely with what he has had to say in his other books, nor anyone else for that matter. But I do have much to say which I would love to get in to if this debate gets rolling again.

One more thing, the OP is about Christian missionaries in muslim lands and here we are discussing paradigms again. This is indeed a sad state of affairs for the Church.

God Bless You

David

[Mrs. B]

Why the Islamic Antichrist Theory Matters....

I, for years thought that Moshe Dayan was the future leader of Israel......

Do a search for Moshe Dayan and you will see.

Zecharaia 11:17.....WOE to the Idol Shepherd that leaveth the flock!
the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his Right Eye:
His arm shal be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened....

Dayan was a great leader in the 6 day war....
He had a LEFT eye......not right
but his right eye shall be utterly darkened......he could see but he was spiritually blind in his good eye.

He fulfilles this prophsey......this is also a sign that we are the last generation.....before Jesus comes
If you study about Him......it is very interesting....
He was Israels Great Leader in the 6 day war...
and fulfills this prophsey.....His arm was withered from a bomb explosion...His jeep was blown up and His driver killed but he walked away.....His left eye was blinded but it it his right eye that is Blind...spiritually blind.....

also in Zech. 11:8....Three Shepherds also I cut off in One Month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.....
Roosevelt , Hitler and Moslunie all died in the Month of April, 1945.......They all died in one month....this also fulfills this prophsey.....

Mrs. B

Again....This Generation shall not pass till all this (end time prophseys) be fulfilled....

[mark s]

Now, while there is more than one reason why Christians are not going to the Islamic world,

While Richardson wants to blame people's eschatology for the small Christian percentage in Iran, let's try not to forget Iran's "open door policy" to Christian Missionaries. Not.

http://www.persecution.org/category/cou ... east/iran/

http://www.persecution.net/iran.htm

This teaching that Islam is about to disappear is truly destructive to the completion of the Great Commission among Muslims.

Just try to convince those who do evangelize in Iran that this is true!

Numerous Western Christians today are openly calling for war with Iran

And who exactly are these Christians calling for war??

these false and deeply demotivating interpretations of prophecy

What a straw man!

Failure to believe in an Islamic antichrist makes us not care if Muslims get saved???

It's one thing to argue for an Islamic Antichrist, but quite another to vilify those who disagree. Those cold hearted war-mongering Christians . . . oh my!

Speaking of ad hominems . . . isn't that pretty much what this entire article is??? And this is OK?

[Exit40]

Hi Mrs B. I didn't know that about Moshe Dyan. I understand your thoughts about a spiritually blind eye too, which Prophecy could very well be pointing to, as this is an idol shepherd, not an idle shepherd. If this were the case what would be the spiritual meaning of a withered arm, which would have to be included in the spiritual interpretation. I am at a bit of a loss to explain this, although I think it could have something to do with military leadership, that being it would be poor leadership. Any thoughts ?

Also, Iran's Ayatollah Khamenei has his right arm withered from a suicide attack on someone whom he had the misfortune of standing next to. Not saying he is a fulfillment, but when I first became aware of this I did look into it further. His eyes both appear normal.

At any rate, the point is the koran is a subverted backwards mirror image in places of the true Scriptures we know and believe, but muslims say it is our Scriptures which have been corrupted with the koran being the final word of god given to their prophet Mohammed. It is so much more than some fantasy pulled out of the air to apply to desert Arabians.

God Bless You

David

[Exit40]

Now, while there is more than one reason why Christians are not going to the Islamic world,

While Richardson wants to blame people's eschatology for the small Christian percentage in Iran, let's try not to forget Iran's "open door policy" to Christian Missionaries. Not.

People's eschatology is not the only thing he blames. While he expounds considerably on that topic, it is only one of three he mentions. The other two bear as much weight and we do discuss these here also...

I will also be the first to acknowledge that there are numerous Christians who have lost their way, having become completely distracted from the primary mandate of the Christian church, which is the proclamation of the gospel of the Kingdom – in both word and deed.

On the other hand, there are many Christians, who have overreacted to the unhealthy emphasis of some and now avoid the subject of biblical prophecy altogether.

These are general statements that do not apply universally, but it can be said these are issues for the Church that should be addressed, generally.

This teaching that Islam is about to disappear is truly destructive to the completion of the Great Commission among Muslims.

Just try to convince those who do evangelize in Iran that this is true!

I think that is a major point of the article. Mission work in Iran, as well as any other muslim nation or where muslims have risen to power, is difficult and dangerous.

Numerous Western Christians today are openly calling for war with Iran

And who exactly are these Christians calling for war??

Does he have to name every name ? Although I haven't done this, I would imagine searching out Dominionism and Kingdom Now theorists could provide a few. And his point being made in the rest of that statement is...

yet few are aware of the fact that Iran is experiencing the single greatest Christian revival in the world!

I have read this and would love to hear more about it. It's this sort of thing that is very exciting to me, and proves the greater the persecution the greater the Church does.

these false and deeply demotivating interpretations of prophecy

What a straw man!

Failure to believe in an Islamic antichrist makes us not care if Muslims get saved???

It's one thing to argue for an Islamic Antichrist, but quite another to vilify those who disagree. Those cold hearted war-mongering Christians . . . oh my!

I have to agree with you here, although only to an extent. First, we have examples of islamophobia in Christian circles that take some rather nasty positions, one being they appear not to care if muslims get saved, in fact doing their best to condemn them to hell themselves. Another being a PC approach which is false and empty of passion for Christ, and His ultimate Truth. Second, I can see where he would make a statement like this, and it is a straw man, yet it covers only select believers of different theories who meet the other criteria he briefly addresses, and those who, in seeming desperation their belief will be shattered if he proves to be correct in his assessment, continuously attack him, not to mention the muslims who want him dead. Yes, he seems a bit on the desperate side himself but I see no vilification nor reference to cold hearted war mongering Christians. That also is a straw man.

Speaking of ad hominems . . . isn't that pretty much what this entire article is??? And this is OK?

Really Mark ? That is a broad sweeping generalization that is inaccurate. If it were true it would not be OK. I have to wonder if we here need get caught up in what appears to be leading Prophecy teachers battle amongst themselves. I'm taking a good look at myself by the way in that respect. As one who doesn't believe in everything these teachers say, and I venture to say most of us here feel the same way, and as one who can get deeply involved in the details, as many of us here do, I wonder if any of us can see the forest for the trees, myself included. If we become so dogmatic in our beliefs we can't accept another possible interpretation and turn on each other we actually fulfill another Prophecy. This is one I'm sure we all want to avoid.

God Bless You

David

[mark s]

I'd just like to see the discussion remain focused on the real issues without bringing in all this other stuff. It shows a weak argument to have to make your proof about how the opposing view makes Christians to be defective in their walk because they believe different about the AC.

This has nothing to do with whether we want to see Muslims saved. I mean, seriously!

So now we can have the same debate all over again, about whether the AC is Muslim or not, except now we can add in that anyone who thinks the AC isn't a Muslin AC is what, all these other things too?

This article is "why the Islamic AC theory matters". And why does it matter? Because unless you believe it, you're not going to be caring or trying to save Muslims.

That's ridiculous. But that's what he's saying.

[Jericho]

Numerous Western Christians today are openly calling for war with Iran, yet few are aware of the fact that Iran is experiencing the single greatest Christian revival in the world!

I would just add most Christians, and most of the world for that matter, don't necessarily want a war with Iran. What they want is for Iran NOT to have nuclear weapons, for what that would mean for Israel and for the rest of the world. But after nearly a decade of sanctions and talks and cyber attacks and covert assassinations, Iran persists. We may have had a chance for a regime change in 2009 during the Iranian election protests but Obama botched that one up. If we do go to war with Iran it's because they left us with no other recourse, which seem to be what the Mullahs want anyways. As for the other stuff it's been debated ad nauseum and there's nothing new to add.

[Abiding in His Word]

Regarding his statement that the Islamic world needs missionaries...I happened upon this astounding 7 min. video (2008) about world demographics that anticipates the 52 million muslims will be 104 million within the next 20 years in Europe alone. Worth 7 min. of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

[Abiding in His Word]

Not sure the video is entirely true as Snopes calls some of the statistics questionable. Although I've seen two or more statisticians arrive at very different conclusions as a result of their research, so..... who knows.

[Exit40]

I'd just like to see the discussion remain focused on the real issues without bringing in all this other stuff. It shows a weak argument to have to make your proof about how the opposing view makes Christians to be defective in their walk because they believe different about the AC.

This has nothing to do with whether we want to see Muslims saved. I mean, seriously!

So now we can have the same debate all over again, about whether the AC is Muslim or not, except now we can add in that anyone who thinks the AC isn't a Muslin AC is what, all these other things too?

This article is "why the Islamic AC theory matters". And why does it matter? Because unless you believe it, you're not going to be caring or trying to save Muslims.

That's ridiculous. But that's what he's saying.

Well maybe he is right, generally speaking. If the traditional interpretation says islam will be wiped out by God why bother to make the effort to save those God won't ? And what is our witness to muslims, in general ? If these are the end times then the Church is to become apostate. Would failure to witness be a facet of apostasy ? How about love growing cold, brother turning against brother, would that meet the requirement ? These are real issues, spoken of, rather written, we should indeed be concerned with. If our individual beliefs about ourselves causes internal conflict, expressed vehemently ( and understandably ), with what has been written then we should indeed examine the issues from the general perspective.

In spite of the fact the title of the article is 'Why the islamic AC theory matters' Joel only mentions the AC twice in the whole article. Yet in four separate quotes from opposition teachers, for lack of a better description, each refers to what will be after islam is wiped out, what the 'real' AC will start with, a world without islam and the muslims who number approximately one fourth of our earthly population. Granted the quotes are cherry picked, nevertheless, bye bye muslims. Oh thank Heaven for solving that problem for us. Then we can begin to really sweat out the Prophecies.

Hate to finish here, but I gotta run.

God Bless You

David

[Jericho]

Hi David

Well maybe he is right, generally speaking. If the traditional interpretation says islam will be wiped out by God why bother to make the effort to save those God won't ?

Isn't this ultimately the outcome of Gog\Magog? Rather you believe it happens at the end of the 7 years or prior the result is the same, many Muslims die and Islam is defeated.

Yet in four separate quotes from opposition teachers, for lack of a better description, each refers to what will be after islam is wiped out, what the 'real' AC will start with, a world without islam and the muslims who number approximately one fourth of our earthly population

None of them claim every Muslim in the world would be wiped out, but a majority of those combatants in the Gog\Magog invasion would. Let's just say hypothetically (for the sake of argument) Gog/Magog happens prior to the final 7 years, would that not be a demoralizing blow to Islam? How could it not? What would is say when all the combined Islamic nations can not defeat the God of Israel? Even with the odds overwhelmingly in there favor. If I were a Muslim I would sure start questioning my faith after that.

So yes we should try to get Muslim's saved. That is the Great Commission after all, regardless of eschatology. And I don't think it's always necessarily been form lack of trying. Some parts of the world have always been resistant to the gospel, this is especially true in the 10/40 window where converting to Christianity and evangelizing can cost you your life.

[lamb7]

The point is that there are many converts from Islam today and we do not know for certain when or if there will be a complete annihilation of them. Until then, yes, we are to witness to all who are hungry and seeking God.

I often wonder if that is why they are spreading out into other countries, as going there is so dangerous. It could be part of God’s plan for all we know. Being Native myself, I realize when there were those who meant harm, (the conquering and genocide of the Native peoples of the Americas), we would not have known of the one true God or His son, Jesus Christ by whom we are saved, if it had not been allowed to happen; hence God turned it into the good of my people. Looking ahead, not behind! I see that maybe their migration is a part of this same sort of ministry, bringing them to us in order to be saved by the blood of Christ.

I also posted the article I did because I found it suspect that the op article’s author was Richardson, who, himself, states that he doesn’t go by his real name:

“I doubt that few, if any of you, know anything about Joel Richardson. And it is difficult to find out anything about him because that is not his real name. He reveals that fact in the introduction of his book and then states that he uses a pen name due to fear of Muslim threats on his life.”

So, far be it for him to condemn others who, for the same reason, find it hard to witness within the Islamic fields for the same reason. And in order to benefit from this author, we should know a bit about him and his theories, which I did not. I was not aware that this has been debated at length already, so, my apologies for inserting it within this thread.

[Exit40]

Hi Jericho.

What would is say when all the combined Islamic nations can not defeat the God of Israel? Even with the odds overwhelmingly in there favor. If I were a Muslim I would sure start questioning my faith after that.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious, not only for muslims but for all the earthlings left after this. And spoken of in Scripture also. The point is, plainly, Eze 39, God says....

Eze 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not [let them] pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
Eze 39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this [is] the day whereof I have spoken.

Yet we have respected teachers and elders who deny this will happen the way God says it will. Post gog/magog the Jews somehow still follow after the FP and AC even though God Says...

Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I [am] the LORD their God from that day and forward.

And the armies gather post gog at Armageddon to battle a short time later even though they too have seen what God can do to His enemies, and even though...

Eze 39:21 ¶ And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

And they already know, vs 7, God is the Lord, the Holy one in Israel.

So while we have many teachers agreeing, and as such it is called traditional knowledge, gog/magog is muslim nations, some saying with Russia, that Scripture does indeed say this, then deny the end is clear attempting to force other Prophecy of their interpretation into the scene, the biggest misconception of which is there must be at least seven years between this and the end.

I was led to read the three versions of the Olivet Discourse to gain further utterance that would apply here. I found no evidence of a seven year period there, for tribulation, Jacob's Trouble, or anything else that could be defined by a seven year period. Most striking to me, our Lord's first answer to His Disciples was to beware of deception, the following verse particularly standing out...

Luk 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

A brief word study of this verse, which does not say Christ, but rather many will come in His Name, presumably calling themselves Christian, and by the words and statements they make appear to be anointed, Christos, claiming they understand the Word of God, and the end time draws near, like it is now, and we are not to go after them. This requires discernment on our part to tell which are the true Teachers of the Word, and pretty much eliminates those who say the time is near from being among them. Throwing this out there would commence one of the greatet dodgeball games ever recorded.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any [man] deceive you:

We are commanded to watch, but watch also means to guard Our Faith, which probably should be the primary definition, and then to watch for the signs, not to make predictions of when these things will take place and in which order because it has to happen this way or our paradigm falls apart, so we need to be defensive about our positions lest we be proved wrong and be called false teachers and deceivers of the Elect. But so that when the Prophetic events happen we can pull out our Scriptures and point to where we can say, 'See, The Lord told us beforehand this would happen', and everything written there is perfect to the tiniest detail, jot, and tittle. The Lord gets the Glory, we get to witness of Him.

BTW, while I am and have been an islamic paradigm advocate, meaning I watch to see if this will be the fulfillment according to the Word of God, I watch elsewhere also and I am beginning to see/think there will be an alliance of the EU/NATO/MENA nations, of which Israel will be a part, only later to be betrayed. By the descriptions of the AC in Scripture I am inclined to believe he will be a muslim of extreme but hidden beliefs, until the betrayal, or at least heavily influenced by islam and sharia law, finance in particular. No, I don't believe the end is near, but the signs seem to indicate it is approaching.

God Bless You

David

[Exit40]

Hi Lamb7, no apology is necessary. In fact, I think that article along with the OP one brings to our attention some real issues for the Church. We should discuss these so we can conform ourselves to The Word instead of the teachers.

As for your ancestry, I find there is no proper witnessing in their slaughter and annihilation, a very sore spot for me. Yet your remnant survives, some of whom are Christian, others of whom take their casino money and make great issues of their natural spirituality, the nature of which others cannot grasp. However, when I was deep into Indian land and faced with some angry natives for my trespass, I was grateful for the Screech owl who landed near me and very vocally, evidently, gave them their comeuppance. After that I was OK in their eyes and in fact able to talk about the Great Spirit a little bit. Had to throw in my first wife was mixed tribe Native, and a healer. Left out her claims to shamanism, white witch, and Baptist affiliations. Not quite sure how The Lord looks at my witness that day, but I am here to talk about it, them being armed, me with a knife on horseback and venture to say somewhat slower than bullets. And thanks Lord, for the owl.

Some believe Native Americans are actually the lost tribes of Israel. Interestingly, Turkey is trying to sign agreements with them for exclusive commercial purposes, reasons for which are not totally explained, but of course, I have my suspicions. So far, Congress has not allowed it, but the Sovereign Nations may yet find a way to get er done.

God Bless You

David

[Jericho]

Hi David

Eze 39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not [let them] pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
Eze 39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this [is] the day whereof I have spoken.

Yet we have respected teachers and elders who deny this will happen the way God says it will. Post gog/magog the Jews somehow still follow after the FP and AC even though God Says...

Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I [am] the LORD their God from that day and forward.

It does that Israel will come to know God after the events of Gog/Magog however it doesn't say they come to know Jesus as there Messiah at this point. I find it reasonable to believe Israel would still follow the AC if they thought he was the messiah and the FP if they thought he was Elijah. Remember this is a time of great deception.

And the armies gather post gog at Armageddon to battle a short time later even though they too have seen what God can do to His enemies, and even though...

Eze 39:21 ¶ And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

They do this because Satan is in ultimaley in control of them and he is desperate to wipe Israel off the map to prevent Jesus from returning. It's Satans last ditch effort. It might seem illogical to us but then again why does Satan persist at all when he already knows his fate? Surely he believes he has a chance to succeed.

So while we have many teachers agreeing, and as such it is called traditional knowledge, gog/magog is muslim nations, some saying with Russia, that Scripture does indeed say this, then deny the end is clear attempting to force other Prophecy of their interpretation into the scene, the biggest misconception of which is there must be at least seven years between this and the end.

I was led to read the three versions of the Olivet Discourse to gain further utterance that would apply here. I found no evidence of a seven year period there, for tribulation, Jacob's Trouble, or anything else that could be defined by a seven year period. Most striking to me, our Lord's first answer to His Disciples was to beware of deception, the following verse particularly standing out...

This is a separate debate for another time, no point in going off on too many rabbit trails.

A brief word study of this verse, which does not say Christ, but rather many will come in His Name, presumably calling themselves Christian, and by the words and statements they make appear to be anointed, Christos, claiming they understand the Word of God, and the end time draws near, like it is now, and we are not to go after them. This requires discernment on our part to tell which are the true Teachers of the Word, and pretty much eliminates those who say the time is near from being among them. Throwing this out there would commence one of the greatet dodgeball games ever recorded.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any [man] deceive you:

Are you saying that anyone who may have a different eschatology view than you are false teachers and intentionally trying to deceive people?

We are commanded to watch, but watch also means to guard Our Faith, which probably should be the primary definition, and then to watch for the signs, not to make predictions of when these things will take place and in which order because it has to happen this way or our paradigm falls apart, so we need to be defensive about our positions lest we be proved wrong and be called false teachers and deceivers of the Elect. But so that when the Prophetic events happen we can pull out our Scriptures and point to where we can say, 'See, The Lord told us beforehand this would happen', and everything written there is perfect to the tiniest detail, jot, and tittle. The Lord gets the Glory, we get to witness of Him.

That's pretty much all we do here is speculate and make predictions. I don't see anything wrong with it as they are nonessential to our faith, as long as it doesn't cause divions among us. We should also be careful who we label a false teacher, which by the biblical definition is someone engages in heresies and deny the Lord. 2pe 2:1

[Exit40]

Hi David

It does that Israel will come to know God after the events of Gog/Magog however it doesn't say they come to know Jesus as there Messiah at this point. I find it reasonable to believe Israel would still follow the AC if they thought he was the messiah and the FP if they thought he was Elijah. Remember this is a time of great deception.

Well at this point God is still The Father, The Son ( precarnate ), and the Holy spirit. So the Jews get to pick which one they want to believe in ? God says He will not let them pollute His Holy Name any longer, this is God speaking here. He tells us what is going to happen, and why, and what happens after that, and that He will be known by the heathen, and the whole house of Israel, after the day He has spoken of, and from that day forward. It's over, and done.

Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Why is this so hard to grasp ?

They do this because Satan is in ultimaley in control of them and he is desperate to wipe Israel off the map to prevent Jesus from returning. It's Satans last ditch effort. It might seem illogical to us but then again why does Satan persist at all when he already knows his fate? Surely he believes he has a chance to succeed.

No he doesn't. He knows his fate and is very angry, like in woe unto us living on earth angry. His goal is to destroy humanity, Jews and Christians particularly, and take as many to hell with him as he can, so he can hate them there too. He uses men to attempt to accomplish this. He eats it up when we hate each other, and kill each other. He is no longer our adversary in court, where his arguments were correct about us, in front of The Judge. He lost the case when Jesus washed us clean with His sacrifice, accusations have been rendered moot to the case. Case closed. Now he is actively our enemy, deception is his weapon, the deceived his tools. Now he is just the prince of the air, and he gets really mad when we brush him off our sleeves like so much dust, our Salvation assured. No he doesn't think he can succeed, he knows he has already lost.

This is a separate debate for another time, no point in going off on too many rabbit trails.

Agreed, but it all ties in. The difficulty lies in.... well, agreed.

Are you saying that anyone who may have a different eschatology view than you are false teachers and intentionally trying to deceive people?

This phrase gets bandied about way too much. But since you asked let me point out that what I have to say is already posted.

But so that when the Prophetic events happen we can pull out our Scriptures and point to where we can say, 'See, The Lord told us beforehand this would happen', and everything written there is perfect to the tiniest detail, jot, and tittle. The Lord gets the Glory, we get to witness of Him.

What I present eschatologically is what I believe from reading Scripture, and watching for signs of fulfillment. I read from many teachers, I don't believe any one of them is totally correct, most don't come close to what I think Scripture states, and no, this is not a private interpretation, others believe as I do. I don't believe my views may be necessarily correct either. Although I can be very stubborn about some issues, I am not so stiff necked I refuse to attempt to see what The Word is saying to us and how it might be applied to today's current events. I learn something every day it seems, discussions we have here drive me into the Word for explanation. I can get as confused as the next guy, but sometimes the Word is indeed a Sword, and I see the Truth of the matter as the false gets cut off. When The Lord reveals, I believe Him, even if I don't fully understand. I only know what I get to know. The rest is watching.

That's pretty much all we do here is speculate and make predictions. I don't see anything wrong with it as they are nonessential to our faith, as long as it doesn't cause divions among us. We should also be careful who we label a false teacher, which by the biblical definition is someone engages in heresies and deny the Lord. 2pe 2:1

Maybe we should stop that then. Watching is one thing, speculating and making predictions is another. Our Faith should be guarded, and grounded in the Word, or we could be deceived. I believe it is essential to our Faith not to predict, I believe this causes fear in the flock as we think we know the unknown is here. Fear begins in the mind that lacks understanding, manifesting in the heart of the flesh, and out of our mouths comes our proclamations that we are indeed afraid of our own predictions. Fear has a smell about it... Well, forget about it it Brother, fear The Lord only. As far as teachers go, if we hang on to every word of a teacher as if it is the Gospel Truth, and some people do this, then we are deceived. If a teacher glorifies himself in his understanding and feeds this to his flock, he is a deceiver, and a false teacher. But it is not up to me to define who is and who is not. It's up to me to check the Scripture to see if the teaching conforms to the Word. Our understanding is incomplete, we are divided over it. But I am convinced as time goes by the Lord will reveal, and we will not be deceived.

God Bless You

David

[laney]

I don't see anyone here out to decieve. I do learn from the discussions. I don't see anyone spitting hate. So brothers and sisters,

And I would like to read the book by Richardson.