Contemplation...Don't read if your faith less than solid.

by **Test4echo101** on Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:43 am

I'm in one of my moods today. 
I have these once in a while. 
 
I'm a very logical person. Alot of my beleif in Christ has nothing to do with faith alone. 
I happen to think that scientific evidence, provable, testable, in your face proof, exists, that supports Biblical truth. 
 
However, no matter how much physical eveidence exists that confirms scripture, there is still no answer to WHY. 
 
Why is this happening? Whats the purpose behind this unbeleivably complex plan? 
 
Every person whom ever lived, has had some minor or major role in Gods plan for salvation, for a future that none of us can really appreciate. 
 
I happen to feel this is so unfair sometimes. 
I did not ask to be born. (That I remember) 
I was an accident, my parents even said as much. I was not figured into their future. But here I am anyway. 
 
Why am I here (why are we here), why do we have to fight for our salvation when we didn't ask to be here in the first place? 
 
I mean think about it, your born without a option to decline, 
then your thrust into a battle between two forces that have nothing to do with you. 
 
From the time your born, you have to LEARN from those around you whats right and whats wrong. If your born into Ozzy Osbournes family, you've got alot of work to do in your life to get back home. 
If your born into a God fearing Preists or Bishops family, your all set. 
 
It almost seems as though we're nothing but Chess pieces and God or Satan moves US around hoping for a checkmate. 
 
I've asked this question before, and you know what? I've found that it is an unanswerable question. 
 
No human being so far can answer this. 
 
It drives me crazy. 
 
The most that anyone can say is trust in God, he knows more than you. 
 
Well, Duh, I know that, but it doesn't help me understand why GOD just doesn't throw Satan and all evil in the fire to begin with. 
 
Some would speculate that GOD does this to save us from hell. 
 
-------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Think about this: 
 
God creates life. If you were born into this world, God put you there. Satan does not have this power. 
 
So before you were scheduled to be born you must have been by definition already in heaven at one time (your soul). 
If not in heaven then at least in Gods domain. 
 
Then, you are born without a choice, and then for the rest of your physical life you are trying to save your soul from hellfire. 
All the spiritual battles we face, all the hardship, all the sacrificing for GOD is because we want to get back to where we already were in the first place. 
 
I just don't get it. 
 
I want to be able to get it, but I'm not allowed to. 
And neither is anyone else on this ball we call earth. 
 
Its like when your freinds know something you don't. 
You know somethings amiss, and you know they know exactly whats going on. But your friends won't tell you, they want to wait untill the curtain drops so they can say "Surpise!" 
 
Arrrggg!! 
 
I am not doubting my faith here, I am not doubting scripture. 
I just wish I had a grasp on Why this is going on, it seems so Hollywood to me. 
 
Any thoughts? 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub149.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=test4echo101>Test4echo101</A> at: 2/15/04 11:57 am

by **IowaHawkeyes** on Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:01 am

Test..... 
 
These are normal, human thoughts we have. I don't see you questioning your faith at all. Someday in Heaven you can ask God these questions and he'll answer them for you. The questions you asked are beyond human comprehension. 
 
Things that I think about are this..... Who created God? How did he know he was God? How long has God been around? You know, questions like that? They can drive you crazy! But, I go back to the word of God and believe on faith. I think these are legitimate questions christians ask themselves and want to know the answers to. 
 
And like you said, why did God choose to have Adam and Eve sin? Why couldn't he just have made things perfect? That way, we'd all been perfect and live in harmony. Then I have to go back to the bible and tell myself that God gave free will to Adam and Eve. With questions like these.... the only answer to help you somewhat is "pre-determination" by God himself. He is all knowing. He knew that you were going to become a child of his. Isn't that cool, yet freaky in a good way? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> 
 
Don't get down on yourself. I'll pray for you.

by **Test4echo101** on Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:49 am

IowaHawkeyes 
 
Thank you for your response. 
You also raised some other questions that are unanswerable. 
 
The problem I have is, why does most of humanity have to die and go to hell to prove Gods point? 
 
Narrow is the path Jesus said. 
Then Why in the universe did God give us all a propensity to sin? 
 
I just think its so unfair. 
 
For example, 
 
Lets say I'm god, I create you as being a RED HUMAN. Thats your colour. RED. 
 
But then, I tell you, that for the rest of your life you have to try and change your colour from RED to something else, because I hate Red. Even though I created you RED, YOU have to change your colour for me. If you don't, you go to hell. If you can somehow manage to change what I created you as, you'll live with me in heaven. 
 
I can't help but think, why the universe didn't YOU create me as something OTHER thaN RED in the first place? 
 
Why GOD didn't you make us Blue or green anything other than the colour you hate? 
 
I dunno 
 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/indifferent.gif ALT=":|">

by **IowaHawkeyes** on Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:41 pm

Hehe..... 
 
Very complicated!! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> All I can say is that God's ways are perfect even though we can't comprehend his mysterious ways. That's why we gotta have faith. All of these questions we have brought up are very good. Unfortunately, we can't answer them. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":("> 
 
 
One thing that I always think about is the fact that once we get to Heaven, there will be no more death and we will live FOREVER! Or for ETERNITY. Just think about it. You either be in Heaven or Hell for eternity. When I think about living forever in Heaven with no end, my brain goes numb. I am in awe at the thought of it. 
 
I guess with life, there is always an end to something. If you go running 4 miles, you know that there's an end to it, after so many minutes. When you go to work and know that in 8 hours or so that work is done and you get to go home. Once again, another ending. But when you think about eternity, there is no end. It sends shivers up my spine. You know what I mean? When I was thinking about this today, I prayed to God and thanked him for his salvation and love for me. I could not even fathom what it would be like to be in Hell for eternity. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":(">

by **farmer** on Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:07 pm

GOD did'nt create us in a colour HE hated. 
 
He created man after HIS picture, HIS resemblance. 
 
Man chose to change the colour. 
 
Since Adam we have Adams colour. 
and by nature we like that colour. 
bishops son or ozzy's son to use your picture. 
(my further buddy is a ozzy fan and preacher son in the same time) 
But this was not the original colour.(!) 
 
HE saw there was no way for any man to come back. 
- to change colour again. 
 
(my wife just shrinked a pullover, 
her beloved RED pullover, 
theres nothing to make this unhappen) 
 
So HE Gave HiS OWN SON to give us a possibility, 
to come back, to make undone... 
He coloured is innocent Son red. for us. 
not we have to fight. HIS SON made this already. 
Theres nothing we can add. 
just accept to be washed from him, 
cause he took our colour to the cross. 
 
crazy? 
or isn't this more a big BIG gift? 
isn't this LOVE? 
 
greetings

by **AngieKat** on Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:27 pm

Hi Test, 
 
I hear what you are saying. And there is not a quick, up-front answer to your questions. This is how I see it and I have peace with it all. 
 
God just is-we in our small minds cannot comprehend his beginning because of course he doesn't have one. That's what makes Him God. I know you probably grasp these statements, but I don't think it can get anymore basic or understandable to us humans than that. He just is and we can't comprehend His infinity in all directions, in every dimension. That is where faith takes over. We can't possibly understand but we believe and have faith in His existence. 
 
He wanted to create. It was his desire to love, and to share His love thus He created the world, universe and all that's in it. Yes with the possibilty for sin with the forbidden tree. He created all of it, knowing very well ahead of time that we would sin beginning with Eve and Adam, and that the answer to reconnect with us was to sacrifice His son, a part of God himself. He chose to create us regardless of the pain and sorrow of His own torture and death. In my opinion, it was to show us stupid humans how much he loved us. What is the greatest sacrifice you can give to someone you love? Your life. He did that to show us how much he loved us. You know that. 
 
Why give us the choice in the first place? Do you think it would mean as much to Him to have our love and adoration if we didn't have a choice? Would it mean as much to us to go to heaven and be in his prensence, to willingly submit to Him if we had no choice. I think not. We could not in my opinion experience the fullness of our relationship with God as it will be in eternity when this is all over, if he didn't make the choice to die for us and we don't make the same choice for Him. 
 
Now as far as our lives go-I have utmost faith that God reaches each and every individual in this world the best way, the most effective way possible but that many just choose what lies in front of their eyes-immediate gratification. Paul says that there is evidence of God everywhere in his creation, but people just refuse to see it. That is my big question. Why do people refuse to see Him as the beginning of it all? How can they deny there is a power greater than us at work? How can they seriously beleive this all Popped up from nothing and evolved to its present state. My answer for that is They simply do not seek the truth. Its as simple as that. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. It doesn't get anymore basic and true than that-yet countless people refuse to see it. They refuse to submit to Him. The will not open their stubborn hearts even a little to even contemplate what a believer who is trying to reach them has to say. I have people in my own family that refuse to see it. What I don't understand about myself is that I don't fret and worry about their salvation. They know the extent of my faith, I try and bring issues up, but as my sister said,"Its not my thing." I almost feel guilty because I'm not more concerned about it, but I think its because I have my sights on God. I have 100% confidence in His word and it says he has no desire for anyone to perish needlessly. That gives me enough confidence to know that i needn't worry about my sister. She has her own free choice, as I do and I choose God. I can live with her choice if its not God because God comes before her in my life. Yes I'm grieved but I have let go of feeling responsible for her and everyone else's salvation. We all have our own choice to make re:God. I trust the Spirit in me to lead me to the people he wants me to reach for him. That's all i can do=-that's all I'm requied to do. I am his servant. 
 
Well I don't know if I covered all your questions. I'm not proposing that I have all the answers but I felt that I must share with you how I have come to terms with some of those tough questions. And if anyone sees anything wrong with what I have to say-help me open my eyes-I am a truth seeker. 
 
Angela

by **Test4echo101** on Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:59 pm

AngieKat, 
 
That was an incredible response. 
You've really touched my heart with that answer. 
 
I can't even post a reply, you HAVE covered my posts, and done it extremley well. 
 
Thank you so much for "getting" what I had to say. 
You've seen through the analogy, and responded to heart of what I was thinking. 
 
So much time I spend trying to explain what I mean, the main thought to my question gets forgotten. 
 
You have understood, and I thank you so very much. 
 
 
God bless you, from the botton of my heart. 
 
Wow, 
 
test, 
 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub149.ezboard.com/bherbsdiscussionboard.showUserPublicProfile?gid=test4echo101>Test4echo101</A> at: 2/16/04 3:00 pm

by **AngieKat** on Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:18 pm

Test, 
 
Thank you for the positive feedback-I just thank the Lord that He used me to help you. That's what I live for-to be used by Him in anyway, any situation possible. It gives me more confidence to listen and obey His Spirit in me when i hear i have really touched your heart. Thank you. 
 
Angela

by **HeSetMeFree** on Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:16 pm

Test4Echo101 
 
God bless ya! I've been there, too. 
 
 
God made us all red, and we can remain red if we want. He won't interfere. God also let us know that, though He loves us very much, He wonders if we love Him. He asks that, if He provides a way at His expense, will we consent to becoming blue to demonstrate our love for Him? 
 
I watched a Shepherd on television. The sheep of 2 flocks were mingled, and looked alike with their wee sheepy faces down munching grass. The shepherd walked around and spoke to a friend, but when he spoke his very own signal, wow! The sheep didn't pick up their heads, but they all started to turn toward him, and much their way behind their shepherd. They all ended up following him, slowly, and separated finally from the other herd. He spoke so quietly I don't know how the flock even heard him over the noise. Only his sheep even moved. 
 
We heard His voice. He wants to know what herd we belong to, His or the other guy's. No matter how discouraged we get, we're His for all time. He is such a good shepherd. 
 
Baaaaaa.... 
 
HSMF *twinkle*

by **rwasiniak74** on Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:17 am

"Then, you are born without a choice, and then for the rest of your physical life you are trying to save your soul from hellfire." 
"Even though I created you RED, YOU have to change your colour for me. If you don't, you go to hell." 
 
Test . . . 
I picked up on a couple of statements you made in your posts (referenced above). The important thing to remember is we are not trying to save our souls. Jesus is the one who saves. When we ask Him into our heart, He saves us from going to Hell. If you are trying to get into Heaven, quit. You are wasting your time. There is nothing we can do to get "Into" Heaven. Our righteousness is like filthy rags to the Lord. All we can do is accept Jesus, and do our best to follow Him. 
 
I understand that there are many questions that go un-answered. One of the ways to accept this is to be honest with God about how you feel. He knows each and every one of us better than anyone else, including ourselves. He just wants us to be honest with Him! If we don't understand something, tell Him. If we are ticked off about something, tell Him. If we don't like what we have to do, tell Him. God will make things right for us, if we will just ask and listen. (Wow, its as if God is writting this to me right now!!!) The bible says that God will give us the desires of our heart. Now re-read it this way . . . God will give us the DESIRES of our heart. God will move us in His direction, onto the narrow path, if only we will let Him. 
 
If you were God, would you want to create beings that automatically loved you, and didn't actually make a choice to love you? Do you want your, (kids, wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, whoever) to love you because of the things you buy them or do for them? No, you want them to love you for you, and for no other reason than because they accept who you are. From what the Bible tells us, God does not operate that way. Even the Angels have a choice when it comes to choosing who they will serve. 
 
So the purpose of this whole thing called life is for us to decide who we are going to follow for the rest of eternity. After that, its all a matter of walking with Jesus daily, talking with Him, asking Him questions, venturing on this Great Adventure with Him, joining the battle between Heaven and Hell WITH Him.

by **in2truth** on Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:17 am

This is a thread I will be coming back to often. I am currently going through my first wilderness experience and it's hard.

God told me to break up with the man I love for one year, I did. The man was my god for half my life. This is a hard time for me as I learn to trust in God and learn to rely only on him. I cry myself to sleep sometimes, I cry during the day some times, both not as often as I did, I know God is doing a work in me, even though I can't feel it, I know it through feedback I am getting from friends at church and through me responding differently to situations as they arise from time to time.

I have not yet got to the place where I've given up and given him everything. I'm desperate to give him everything, but fear often stands in the way. Coming to Christ late in life is hard when you have been used to controlling your own life, no matter how much of a mess you have made of it.

I know I will get to that place soon, given that God told me to break up with him for one year and that he will also surrender his life to Jesus, and God always keeps his promises. The hardest thing for me is to let go as if I'll never see the man I love again, but I know I must put my desires to death in order for God to resurrect them and in putting my desires to death, I know I can focus 100% on Jesus.

Please pray for me.

Thank you and God bless.

by **burien1** on Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:17 am

Wow, you are really doing some reading, In2truth ! :praying:

for you.

by **in2truth** on Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:51 am

burien1 wrote:Wow, you are really doing some reading, In2truth ! for you.

Thank you burien1, I appreciate that. :-)

Contemplation...Don't read if your faith less than solid.

Contemplation...Don't read if your faith less than solid.

I hear ya.....

Re: I hear ya.....

craziness!!!

crazy?

My two cents on the BIG questions

Re: My two cents on the BIG questions

Big Questions

Re: I hear ya.....

Re: Important point in all of this .....

Re: Contemplation...Don't read if your faith less than solid.

Re: Contemplation...Don't read if your faith less than solid.

Re: Contemplation...Don't read if your faith less than solid.

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