What do you think about such a prayer?

[Keeping Alert]

Recently, my godma passed away. I was around her and her family members and friends during her last days and when she eventually died, I stayed around to settle funeral arrangements and such.

During this time, I got time to share the gospel while we were waiting at the hospital.

Among one of them was a Muslim and I managed to strike quite a rapport with her. Before I left, I managed to find time to be with her. She was raised a Muslim since young and she was not about to convert in such a short time. However, I managed to find a quiet time with her and I felt a strong need to pray with her.

Surprisingly, she agreed to pray with me even though she knows I am a Christian. In the midst of the prayer, a sudden thought came into my mind that I should ask her to pray the Sinners's Prayer with me!

I knew she would not accept Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior there and then, so what was I to do?

I know not whether it was by the Holy Spirit or my own ingenuity or desperation, I asked her to follow me in prayer like this "Lord Jesus, IF you are really indeed God, I am willing to accept you as my Lord and Savior... etc etc."

She actually repeated word for word, which was really amazing to me!

But of course, I know not if the prayer did anything in the spiritual realm.

What think ye?

Blessings,
KA

[Abiding in His Word]

I think that's a beautiful testimony, Keeping Alert, of your sensitivity to the leading of the Holy Spirit. Her willingness to pray with you, knowing your beliefs, seems to indicate a heart that was receptive to the gospel. We can't know the effect in her life, whether immediate or down-the-road, but we can rejoice in having been given the opportunity to witness to another. That's what we're called to do. I'll keep this woman in my prayers. Thank you for sharing this.

My condolences on the loss of your godma.

[GodsStudent]

KA: This post of yours lifted my spirits quite high today! Thank you for sharing, and I praise the Lord for the things you have shared. While we could assume many things to try and explain this one away, the one thing I know is God knows all, and He is able, so I will pray for this lady and I thank the Lord such a beautiful witness could be shared today. For His Glory!!!! Amen. I, also, will be praying for this lady to come to know the Lord Jesus Christ. I have heard that many in the middle east have gotten visions, and even claim to have seen the Lord, so who is to say that the Lord cannot or will not reveal this lady, and this prayer does not sit inside her, a seed sown, producing, at this very minute? There I go, I'm starting to assume and anticipate what the Lord will do.....Let me just praise Him!!! He is worthy!

[jgilberAZ]

There is no Biblical example (or justification) for getting someone to 'repeat after me' a "sinner's prayer."

And, getting a non-repentant sinner to repeat a "sinner's prayer" only innoculates them against further evangelism efforts. They've already repeated the sinner's prayer ... why do it again?

If someone's heart is broken over their sin, and they understand they need God's grace, and that that grace is provided through the death of Christ, you won't have to lead them in any prayer. Their heart will be supernaturally changed by God himself, and a prayer of praise will be the natural result.

I think a reading of the pamphlet "decisional regeneration," would serve one well.

I fear you have done more harm than good. This unrepentant muslim now believes they're accepted by the Christian God because they said a rote prayer.

[daffodyllady]

I think getting a Muslim to repeat a prayer asking Jesus please to reveal Himself, if He is truly the Son of God, would be a fantastic way to witness.

[Abiding in His Word]

If someone's heart is broken over their sin, and they understand they need God's grace, and that that grace is provided through the death of Christ, you won't have to lead them in any prayer. Their heart will be supernaturally changed by God himself, and a prayer of praise will be the natural result.

I think a reading of the pamphlet "decisional regeneration," would serve one well.

Hi jgilberAZ,

Not only was my heart not "broken over sin" but I didn't even believe in God. And I certainly didn't believe I was a sinner! My heart was supernaturally changed almost immediately by simply reading the sinners "rote" prayer in the back of David Wilkerson's book, "The Cross and the Switchblade." In fact, after reading it, I was so angry that those in the book talked about God as though He was "real," that I threw the book across the room and it landed behind the sofa to stay there for months before I ran across it again. Upon finding it, I said to myself, "what could it hurt?" So I read the prayer in a totally unrepentant state of unbelief. The only thing I had going for me is that I was willing to believe. In other words, my heart was ready and God honored that.

About two weeks later, I overheard a couple Christians talking about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and I did the same thing. I said (nearly verbatim) "They said you have a gift for me. I don't believe them because they are Episcopalian, but if it's true, I want everything you have for me." Knowing absolutely nothing about this "gift" my mouth opened and words flowed out and I had no idea what that was. But because I had asked, I received. Then I went to the Christian bookstore to search out information about what had happened. THEN, I bought a Bible.

We simply cannot limit the manner one finds the Savior. We cannot call one "method" wrong for whatever reason. We share the gospel and the rest is up to God.

I fear you have done more harm than good. This unrepentant muslim now believes they're accepted by the Christian God because they said a rote prayer.

It's never harmful to share the gospel and pray with someone! We are not to judge whether or not a person is saved or whether any particular system or method is the only way. God knows the heart and the desire of that individual. We underestimate God when we think we have right and wrong ways of witnessing to the lost.

All that's to say, I strongly disagree with what you've said.

ETA:

Mat 7:7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
Mat 7:8 "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Mat 7:9 "Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 "Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?
Mat 7:11 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

[Abiding in His Word]

A while back someone posted a video about a muslim who made the annual journey during Ramadan (I believe) and found Jesus instead. I can't find it, but will continue searching.

Here's an 11-min. video about a young muslim who heard about Jesus and prayed that he didn't believe all this "garbage" he was hearing, so why didn't Jesus just come down and show him. See what happened to him here.

[Abiding in His Word]

Found the thread I mentioned: link

"Take, for instance, Ali, a man whose journey is documented in a recent Charisma News article. A few years ago, he was slated to go on the Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca known as Hajj. But, he claims something transformational happened along the way — something so pivotal that it stripped away the very faith he was attempting to affirm.

“Of course when I went to Mecca I was going there in order to pay homage to the Kabba and to fulfill the requirements in Islam,” Ali explained. ”That night I saw Jesus in a dream.”

[jgilberAZ]

I didn't expect my comments to be well received.

That doesn't, however, invalidate what was said.

Hell's Best Kept Secret

Decisional Regeneration

[Abiding in His Word]

I didn't expect my comments to be well received.

That doesn't, however, invalidate what was said.

Jeff, even Paul's conversion was miraculous; hearing a voice and seeing a vision. Those Muslims testified about their encounter with the Lord that was equally as miraculous. No doubt there are other Muslim testimonies of a conversion that may not follow a prescribed format. My own certainly didn't. And the criminal who was crucified next to Christ was assured of His salvation without a prescribed method, wasn't he?

"I fear you have done more harm than good. This unrepentant Muslim now believes they're accepted by the Christian God because they said a rote prayer."

I just don't see how we can discount someone's effort to lead another to the Lord and say it wasn't valid. Only God can know that.

[jgilberAZ]

I just don't see how we can discount someone's effort to lead another to the Lord and say it wasn't valid.

I knew she would not accept Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior there and then

She led an unrepentant sinner in a prayer which supposes to get someone to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, knowing that the unrepentant sinner did not even believe Jesus was God ...

I asked her to follow me in prayer like this "Lord Jesus, IF you are really indeed God ...

She (KA) asked "What do you think about such a prayer?"

I gave my thoughts. You don't have to agree with them.

FWIW, the gospel call is REPENT AND BELIEVE ... not "accept Jesus as Lord and Savior."

[Keeping Alert]

I just don't see how we can discount someone's effort to lead another to the Lord and say it wasn't valid.

I knew she would not accept Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior there and then

She led an unrepentant sinner in a prayer which supposes to get someone to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, knowing that the unrepentant sinner did not even believe Jesus was God ...

I asked her to follow me in prayer like this "Lord Jesus, IF you are really indeed God ...

She (KA) asked "What do you think about such a prayer?"

I gave my thoughts. You don't have to agree with them.

FWIW, the gospel call is REPENT AND BELIEVE ... not "accept Jesus as Lord and Savior."

I read your link on Decisional Regeneration with much interest. I respect Charles Spurgeon quite a bit... I am also very familiar with Hell's Best Secret by Way of the Master. In fact, I do use their techniques as the mainstay of my gospel outreach.

Perhaps to give more insight to my conversation with this Muslim lady... I did tell her about her sins and that we need to be redeemed from these sins and that is why Jesus' death on the cross is so important as an atonement for our sins, etc. It is as a result of these understandings that she is willing to pray with me (no Muslim is going to pray to the Father in Jesus' name for no good reason...)

I do wonder whether what I did have any impact on her spiritually but I would clearly disagree with you that what I did made matters worse.

Firstly, I think we need to re-study what you say is the gospel = Repent and Believe. What is repentance? Do check out these 2 links

[url]http://www.gotquestions.org/repentance.html

http://carm.org/repentance-necessary-salvation
[/url]

Secondly, if God does answer prayers from a sincere heart, then God is "beholden" in my opinion to answer the prayers of those who come to him for

[url]All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:37 [/url]

Who knows in the spiritual realm what happens when a person happens to be moved by the Holy Spirit to turn to Christ for that one moment and to pray a prayer of repentance and invitation of the Lord into their lifes that something miraculous happens that translate that person into the kingdom of light.

Having preached to lands far and wide, you would not comprehend the stubbornness of culture in the life of a person and I am convinced that none of us have reached to a point that we all worship God in total truth and holiness (I speak about our own fleshly actions). But we do not come to God based on what we can or cannot do but what Christ has done for us on the cross.

And this I preach - SOLA GRATIA SOLA FIDE SOLA CHRISTOS (Repentance is not one of them in the 5 Solas) - I am wary to hinder what God may want to do in the life of anyone by my own restrictions that what a conversion must or must not entail.

And with that, I must say that while Charles Spurgeon is right on condemning Baptism Regeneration, the author is wrong in condemning Decisional Regeneration.

[Jericho]

I think the thief on the cross is an example of someone getting saved in an unorthodox manner. He didn't outright confess his belief in Jesus, tho in his heart he must have believed it. All he said was "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom. (Luk 23:42)". He didn't even repent of any sins, yet Jesus said "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise. (Luk 23:43)".

John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." It doesn't even say anything about repenting, which I do believe we should do. But that believing in Jesus seems to be the most important component of salvation. If this Muslim woman did this I have to believe she is saved. For her to even say He is God is amazing, because Muslims only believe Jesus was a prophet.

[jgilberAZ]

Sounds like repentance to me:

One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:39-43 ESV)

The thief recognized he was receiving the just punishment for his deeds, and turned to Jesus in faith, believing that He could save him.

Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” (Mark 1:14-15 ESV)

Are You Really a Christian? Repent & Believe (Paul Washer)

[Jericho]

The thief recognized he was receiving the just punishment for his deeds, and turned to Jesus in faith, believing that He could save him.

I suppose that's true in a roundabout way. Still while he recognized he was guilty there was an outright confession of sin and repentance. Yet Jesus knew his heart and had the power to forgive sins (Mat 9:6).

[daffodyllady]

I just don't see how we can discount someone's effort to lead another to the Lord and say it wasn't valid. Only God can know that.

I keep looking for a "like" button.

[Abiding in His Word]

I keep looking for a "like" button.

....too much blogging?

Just your words are enough for me, daffodyllady!

[Keeping Alert]

Are You Really a Christian? Repent & Believe (Paul Washer)

I love Paul Washer. He is a great man of God. I have probably watched all his videos that are availabe at his website or on YouTube.

His messages on repentance are well-founded. However, he makes it like unless you have a ash-covering, chest-beating, soul-wrenching, face-to-the-ground kind of repentance, you have not really repented. It leaves one with a feeling of uncertainty about his standing before God (but we are to come BOLDLY before the throne of grace - Hebrews 4:16 - and if BOLDLY then our posture approaching God is clearly different from what Paul Washer would like us to believe)

While we all should be ashamed of our sins and our sinfulness and that we are unworthy worms before a thrice-holy God, God welcomes all who come to Him with outstretched arms as in the Parable of the Prodigal Son. The Father would have nothing of his son grovelling at his feet for an extra moment.

All is Finished at the Cross. Salvation is a free gift (Ephesians 2:8,9). The free gift is offered to all; not with any terms and conditions (Jesus cried IT IS FINISHED... Do we dare add anything more?) And if it is a free gift, does it not just means that we have to accept it and receive it? With a grateful heartful if possible... but if with a uncertain heart? Would God reject? I dare say most of us first believed with lots of doubts still in our hearts, and with a lot of wrong thoughts (evolution, our cultural mindset which may be at odds with the truth, etc, ... must we get these all corrected before God gives us what He calls a FREE GIFT?)

God is now calling out to everyone from the by-way and high-way. That's us. There will be the un-educated, the uncouth, the one with his own character - all He will accept - for it is He who will clothe them with clean linen of righteousness.

Blessings-in-Christ,
KA

[Exit40]

It seems to me an honest and true belief Jesus is the Son of God accepting His sacrifice for us is all that is required for salvation. That in turn causes the Holy spirit to convict of personal sins. For some it is a literal immediate prostration and deep repentance, for others it is a slower process, but an effective one if belief and Faith are true. Lord knows how He wants this to work, now or further down the road, but it is for his purpose and Glory that we move along. His sheep know His voice, be it the still quiet one or the voice of many waters, we know Him when He speaks. If He wants us, we are His and we cannot escape even if we wanted to, but who could want to. It is possible to be in denial for a time, but if our names are tattooed on His hand, that's it. We're His. He is God, we are puny. His Spirit is overwhelming when He fills us, we don't want to escape, it is the furthest thing from our minds, but naturally and wholeheartedly love Him for who He is, our God and Savior. I suppose it is possible to have your name blotted from the Book of Life, but only if He lets us choose differently.

It may seem unscriptural to say this, but I do believe it. I honestly don't know how we can resist Him when He wants us. See, it is for His Glory we are called, to show us His power over us, that He can save even the most miserable of sinners when He wants to, and we then want to do His Will and serve Him. Most of our confusion comes from not knowing His Will for us, but, if we give our lives to Him to do as He pleases with us, we need not worry about His Will, other than loving Him and following His commandments, which are now two. It is not us that does it anyway, but Him and His power that works through us, even if we do not know it. We cannot fail because He does not fail, ever. So I don't think we should be harsh on anyone who shares the Gospel in love and Truth. Our works are simply the joy of being His and demonstrating that. However a prayer by rote is a clanging cymbal. It's our hearts our Father wants, so as to circumcise the stony shell which covers it, and reveal Himself to us as He has promised. Once again, He does not fail, ever, to keep His promise. This should be our teaching, In His pure and perfect Holiness, He is a covenant keeper with us, even if we cannot be, which we cannot be on His level, so we are totally dependent on Him for this. All power and Glory are His. We are puny, He is God. And He is irresistible. When he wants to be. Be an honest seeker, find the door which is Christ, and in belief open it to receive the gift of Faith. Then...

Jhn 14:21-23 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

How great is our Father who loves us through Christ, who keeps His word in perfection.

God Bless

David

[Mrs. B]

What do you think about such a Prayer?


what do you think about such a prayer.....?
I think it was the Holy Spirit praying through you for this Lady......she repeated the words......she had a choice.
she could have refused but she did not.....so, Praise the Lord who is faithful and the door of her heart was open...
and what does the Lord do? He takes advantage to come in.....and make Himself Known to Her...she will come to more perfect truth because God answers Prayer......Trust me....she will come to Jesus and be saved.....
Jesus is really indeed God manifested in the Flesh....and she said, repeat .....I AM Willing to accept you as my Lord and Savior........Jesus will come to Her and reveal Himself to HEr....and she will have the opportunity to see and believe and to aaccept Him as Her Lord and Savior......


I know not whether it was by the Holy Spirit or my own ingenuity or desperation, I asked her to follow me in prayer like this "Lord Jesus, IF you are really indeed God, I am willing to accept you as my Lord and Savior... etc etc."

She actually repeated word for word, which was really amazing to me...
The door was open and I assusre she will believe....as He will make Himself Known to Her....
KA I believe God used you to bring this Lady to Jesus.....her heart was open and The Lord Jesus will take over from there.
God is a Spirit.....the Spirit of God spoke through you and her heart was open....she repeated and God will do the rest....



Mrs. B
Love