Jesus-to-America-why-do-you-persecute-Me?

[drdos]

"The reasoning says the U. S. government’s assistance of the radical elements in the “Arab Spring” has wreaked havoc with the region’s Christians".

http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/jesus-to-ame ... secute-me/

[OneDay]

Lord Jesus have mercy. Our nation is adding fuel to our demise....
Leviticus 26:21 "'If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve.

[Sword of Geddon]

The blame lies not in America but with Obama and his corrupt administration.

[OneDay]

Amen to that SOG...

[drdos]

The blame lies not in America but with Obama and his corrupt administration.

Like it or not the whole suffers based on it's leadership.

[Sword of Geddon]

The blame lies not in America but with Obama and his corrupt administration.

Like it or not the whole suffers based on it's leadership.

Obama is only leader to those who follow him. He may be President of the United States...but for me and millions like me...he will NEVER be my President.

Obama fancies himself an emperior or king...but I have only ONE king...and he does not share power with the wicked.

[drdos]

The blame lies not in America but with Obama and his corrupt administration.

Like it or not the whole suffers based on it's leadership.

Obama is only leader to those who follow him. He may be President of the United States...but for me and millions like me...he will NEVER be my President.

Obama fancies himself an emperior or king...but I have only ONE king...and he does not share power with the wicked.

Was not Ramses II the ruler over Egypt during Moses time? And was he not also the ruler over the Jews? Did not God punish the land of Egypt while the Jews lived in Egypt. Why do you feel we are any different? God will punish this nation based on it's leadership, but He will protect His own. Of Course God doesn't share power with the wicked, but if you read the Old Testament you may find a few instances of God using evil rulers for His plan. Remember God is Sovereign.

[Sword of Geddon]

Was not Ramses II the ruler over Egypt during Moses time? And was he not also the ruler over the Jews? Did not God punish the land of Egypt while the Jews lived in Egypt. Why do you feel we are any different? God will punish this nation based on it's leadership, but He will protect His own. Of Course God doesn't share power with the wicked, but if you read the Old Testament you may find a few instances of God using evil rulers for His plan. Remember God is Sovereign.

Abraham argued with God that he should not judge Sodom and Gommorah if one thousand righteous men were found in either city. Abraham then narrowed it down until it was one righteous man. God allowed..even invited Abraham to question his actions.

In the same spirit I pray to God...to give this nation another chance...to take into account the Americans who oppose the evil of the social engineers, the propagandists and elsewhere.

But also of the belief that God allows man to settle his own affairs, that each is responsible for their own actions.

[drdos]

Abraham argued with God that he should not judge Sodom and Gommorah if one thousand righteous men were found in either city. Abraham then narrowed it down until it was one righteous man. God allowed..even invited Abraham to question his actions.

In the same spirit I pray to God...to give this nation another chance...to take into account the Americans who oppose the evil of the social engineers, the propagandists and elsewhere.

But also of the belief that God allows man to settle his own affairs, that each is responsible for their own actions.

And Jesus said "It Is Finished"

[Sword of Geddon]

Abraham argued with God that he should not judge Sodom and Gommorah if one thousand righteous men were found in either city. Abraham then narrowed it down until it was one righteous man. God allowed..even invited Abraham to question his actions.

In the same spirit I pray to God...to give this nation another chance...to take into account the Americans who oppose the evil of the social engineers, the propagandists and elsewhere.

But also of the belief that God allows man to settle his own affairs, that each is responsible for their own actions.

And Jesus said "It Is Finished"

And? That does not change the fact that you are responsible for your own choices. There is no such thing as collective salvation. Obama believes in collective salvation...so too does a couple members on this board, doesn't make it true.

Paul said "All scripture is useful". Remember...during that time(the first century church) scripture was the old testament. They went by the term Jew as well.

[drdos]

Abraham argued with God that he should not judge Sodom and Gommorah if one thousand righteous men were found in either city. Abraham then narrowed it down until it was one righteous man. God allowed..even invited Abraham to question his actions.

In the same spirit I pray to God...to give this nation another chance...to take into account the Americans who oppose the evil of the social engineers, the propagandists and elsewhere.

But also of the belief that God allows man to settle his own affairs, that each is responsible for their own actions.

And Jesus said "It Is Finished"

And? That does not change the fact that you are responsible for your own choices. There is no such thing as collective salvation. Obama believes in collective salvation...so too does a couple members on this board, doesn't make it true.

Paul said "All scripture is useful". Remember...during that time(the first century church) scripture was the old testament. They went by the term Jew as well.

My statement has nothing to do with Collective salvation. I don't believe in it. What I meant was that the Revelation of Jesus was written and delivered to God's people to tell us of the things to come. Like it or not SOG The Lord is Going to Return again and setup His Kingdom. I get so tried of hearing about oh America is such a beacon of light. No It Is Not. It once was but not anymore. Do we need to pray for our nation YES. Do we still need to share the Gospel YES. But God's will, that has been revealed to us through His written Word will not change. He is the Same Yesterday, Today, and Forever, and His Word has been spoken on this matter of How things will end. We may not know the extent of what will happen to the USA during the time of testing, but according to God's Word many will fall away. Also God's judgement will come upon the whole world. What does this mean for us in the here and now? We need to pray for one another. We need to ask God for His eyes and His heart for the lost because the time is short. We need to share the gospel of Jesus Christ till our last breath. What we don't need to do is Pray that God will help us get back our Declaration of Independence, or to plead to God for a man to be our president that would uphold our constitution, and give us a good human leader to rescue us. Jesus is my redeemer not any candidate running for POTUS.

[Sword of Geddon]

I understand what your saying...but the truth is like it or not we don't know when Jesus is coming back or if we are even close to the end times. Therefore you should see the world and country you live in as your home until such a time that your no longer physically here.

Remember that saying that came out of the second world war? All evil needs to triumph is for good men(or women) to do nothing.

Voting is doing something. Being a part of the US political system is doing something. Just as Good4U told me months ago when I was at the same place you are now...if you don't vote you have no right to complain about things.

Yes..salvation comes threw faith..but faith without works is dead. A true Christian will show their faith threw their actions.

I am blunt in my posts here because I believe some things need to be said here. There seems to be a lack of faith in scripture, and an apathy regarding events.

If I said nothing who else would remind you and point out what I have? Many of you seem to be going down the same road that the Christians in nazi germany did, being under a misapplication of Romans 13(yes I'm mentioning the Nazis).

[drdos]

No, I will live like it is my last day on earth till Christ comes back, and who said I was't going to vote? I said I will not vote for Obama, or Romney. Trust me there will be other candidates out there running for office. Also remember SOG I work for this current administration so I have a little better idea about our govt inner workings then most.

[Sword of Geddon]

:doh: No, I will live like it is my last day on earth till Christ comes back, and who said I was't going to vote? I said I will not vote for Obama, or Romney. Trust me there will be other candidates out there running for office. Also remember SOG I work for this current administration so I have a little better idea about our govt inner workings then most.

I know there are other candidates running on the many third party platforms...but only Romney has a chance of beating Obama. The only thing a third party can do is give Obama the white house a second term.

That cannot be allowed to happen. There must be a unified front against Obama.

And I don't understand how anyone can claim Romney is evil. The man always tries to do the right thing, when he was governor of my state he didn't even take a salary. He filled in for a radio talk show host on at least a couple occasions because he wanted to talk directly to the people.

Contrast that with Obama..who looks down on people like hes some kind of royalty, taking vacations with people's tax money, ignoring the constitution and attempting to trample on the bill of rights.

Obama is a traitor and he is not above the law. Respect is not a given, even if someone is a leader. Respect is earned. Obama is a human just like anyone else, he is not entitled to anything.

[Keeping Alert]

Like it or not the whole suffers based on it's leadership.

I agree. One may vote against a candidate but if the majority votes that candidate in, repercussions affect the whole nation based on how that leader acts. I hear that thousands or more in Iran oppose to their current leader but if there is a war that affects Iran, it ain't going to only affect those who support this leader but everyone.

In fact, this is the concept of Adam's sin affecting all generations. We are born in sin and are sinners because of our roots in Adam. If a baby is born and dies the next second, it is still a sinner even though he/she has not done anything wrong.

On the contrary, we who are born again are new creatures sinless and holy because we have changed our affiliation in Christ. If a sinner is born again and dies the next second, that person is saved completely even though he/she has not done anything right.

[Abiding in His Word]

Hi Keeping Alert,

Two quick questions... if a baby actually a sinner or just born with a sin nature? And did you mean to say that we are sinless after being born again? Just thinking out loud here regarding those two things.

[Keeping Alert]

Hi Keeping Alert,

Two quick questions... if a baby actually a sinner or just born with a sin nature? And did you mean to say that we are sinless after being born again? Just thinking out loud here regarding those two things.

Hi Abiding,

Yes, I believe that God looks at a baby as an actual sinner. Jesus did not die for our sin nature but for our sins. Legally, you may think of it this way - the law cannot punish a person before the crime is committed. Does a baby need salvation through Christ? I believe so. (I am at work now so I will have to give you scriptures later) And if yes, then God must see the baby as a sinner and not merely with sin nature but yet to commit sin - for in that case, there is nothing to save or condemn.

Yes, I also believe that we are sinless after being born again. Not that we will not sin but that being in Christ, we are positionally as Christ is - we are sinless, holy, righteous Child of God, seated at the RIght hand of God in the heavenlies. God sees us as He sees Christ.

Tough to understand but do ponder over the grand scheme of things and hopefully we will all get it.

Best regards,
KA

[Abiding in His Word]

Thanks, KA. I guess that's a topic for another thread. I don't want to hijack this topic. (Pretty sure I disagree though...) I think this topic has been discussed before and there were a variety of opinions regarding babies.

[Keeping Alert]

Yes, I am sure this topic will lead to much debate because it involves concepts like OSAS, etc... no one has the last word on such things... (although I am pretty sure I am right hahahaha.... )

[El Gallo]

Guns pointed out brothers and sisters, not in. Keep your prayer powder dry and spiritual senses guns pointed at the powers, behind the powers. We battle not against flesh and blood. Not too sure Mr. Romney will be much different policy wise, even if he is allowed in.

[Sword of Geddon]

Hi Keeping Alert,

Two quick questions... if a baby actually a sinner or just born with a sin nature? And did you mean to say that we are sinless after being born again? Just thinking out loud here regarding those two things.

Hi Abiding,

Yes, I believe that God looks at a baby as an actual sinner. Jesus did not die for our sin nature but for our sins. Legally, you may think of it this way - the law cannot punish a person before the crime is committed. Does a baby need salvation through Christ? I believe so. (I am at work now so I will have to give you scriptures later) And if yes, then God must see the baby as a sinner and not merely with sin nature but yet to commit sin - for in that case, there is nothing to save or condemn.

Yes, I also believe that we are sinless after being born again. Not that we will not sin but that being in Christ, we are positionally as Christ is - we are sinless, holy, righteous Child of God, seated at the RIght hand of God in the heavenlies. God sees us as He sees Christ.

Tough to understand but do ponder over the grand scheme of things and hopefully we will all get it.

Best regards,
KA

Why would/should all people be effected by the actions of two?

Lets look at this logically. When you do something wrong, it is your responsibility. It is not anyone's fault but your own. The only way someone else could also be at fault is if that person coaxed you into doing something you shouldn't, which was why the serpent(satan) was guilty.

Now this goes pretty deep so bear with me here.

You inherit part of your nature threw your parents. Adam and Eve both sinned, therefore part of their nature was to sin..so all their descendents down to Noah had a sinful nature.

By Noah's time only Noah and his family were considered righteous by God, and those people are OUR distant ancestors.

Paul said "Just as all men die in Adam..so to do all men Live threw Yeshua(Christ)".

Regarding babies, they probably go to paradise when they die, just as all righteous men and women do. The wicked and unrepentant go to Hell, and eventually the lake of fire if their names are not written in the Book of Life.

But the point is..the nature of our sins are not because of a collective group, but actions of individuals. Whenever a group is guilty of something it is because each member of that group is guilty of something. Because of our sin nature.

I hope I'm making sense.

[Keeping Alert]

If that is all to it, that is, that everyone is responsible for his own actions, then why should Christ's death on the cross be efficacious for us? By that I mean, we continue to sin don't we? How then does Christ save us unless somehow Christ is able to impart to us something that we did not do or cannot do.

All our righteousness are as filthy rags - so the bible says. So we must have gotten saved by something that we cannot do for even our righteous works are dung before God.

Conversely, if we were only responsible for our own actions, then why are we said to be IN ADAM or IN CHRIST? I may have inherited a sin nature that can be traced to Adam but why am I IN ADAM?

I am IN ADAM because he is our representative or our head, just as I am IN CHRIST because Christ now becomes my representative and head.

When God sees an unrepentant sinner, he sees as it were ADAM. When he sees a saved child of God, he sees as it were CHRIST.

[Sword of Geddon]

I don't believe that bit about righteousness. What people do does matter. Glass half full.

[Abiding in His Word]

Sword said:

But the point is..the nature of our sins are not because of a collective group, but actions of individuals. Whenever a group is guilty of something it is because each member of that group is guilty of something. Because of our sin nature.

Sword is correct here. We are each responsible for the sins we commit either by commission or omission, intentional or unintentional.

Keeping Alert said:

I am IN ADAM because he is our representative or our head, just as I am IN CHRIST because Christ now becomes my representative and head.

When God sees an unrepentant sinner, he sees as it were ADAM. When he sees a saved child of God, he sees as it were CHRIST.

KA, I'm aware of that "federal" head/representative teaching but there is nothing in either 1 Cor. 15 nor Romans 5 (or anywhere else in scripture) that includes either of these words. Paul often uses contrasts to make his point clear; i.e. light vs. darkness; first vs. last; flesh vs. spirit; disobedience vs. obedience; condemnation vs. justification; and death vs. life. In the two scriptures above, he is contrasting Adam (first/death) vs. Jesus (first/everlasting life) and the implications of that sacrificial death for all mankind.

So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God. Rom 14:12

Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin. Deut. 24:16

The contrast is that while each is accountable for his/her own sin, Jesus sacrificial death satisfies the account. Paul is contrasting Adam's sin that brought death to Jesus who brought life.

[daffodyllady]

I know this is not in the flow of conversation here, but I thought it fit with the topic title:

The Christian Pastor from Virginia (I know him personally) has been convicted of kidnapping, and several other serious federal crimes. He is probably looking at 3 years of jail time.

He merely helped a Christian mother escape from the country with her little girl, because that little girl was about to be given to her (the mother's) former lesbian partner. The girl had been having enforced weekend visits, and had been coming home showing evidence of molestation. The judge handling the case refused to listen to the evidence pointing to child abuse, and instead threatened complete transfer of custody.

So America has come to this. It is now a crime to help a mother rescue her child from an abuser, if that abuser is a homosexual.

God help us. Persecution of Christianity has arrived.

[drdos]

I know this is not in the flow of conversation here, but I thought it fit with the topic title:

The Christian Pastor from Virginia (I know him personally) has been convicted of kidnapping, and several other serious federal crimes. He is probably looking at 3 years of jail time.

He merely helped a Christian mother escape from the country with her little girl, because that little girl was about to be given to her (the mother's) former lesbian partner. The girl had been having enforced weekend visits, and had been coming home showing evidence of molestation. The judge handling the case refused to listen to the evidence pointing to child abuse, and instead threatened complete transfer of custody.

So America has come to this. It is now a crime to help a mother rescue her child from an abuser, if that abuser is a homosexual.

God help us. Persecution of Christianity has arrived.

I am so sickened by this story. I pray for God's intervention here. I pray that the Lord would restore this child to her rightful mother, and that this pastor would be vindicated of any wrong doing. My heart is so sorrowful this morning. My 11yr daughter came home from a "friend's" house last night, sat in my lap and sobbed because another girl had said she hates my daughter, and here are the 5 reasons why. We didn't talk about the things this girl listed, but that she finds my daughter annoying(Elisa talks about Jesus a lot, but I'm not sure that was one of those reasons)This girl then told the rest of my daughters friends these 5 things in front of her. It crushed Elisa my daughter. I am so worried about her. Please pray for my daughter today. Blessings

[daffodyllady]

Actually, the mother and her child have not been found. They have successfully escaped from the FBI, so far.

However, the American missionaries in Central America who helped her get away, have been harassed and threatened, their homes have been searched unlawfully, and the FBI is not treating them as if they have American rights. They are living in fear of their own government. If it happens there now, it will not take long for it to start here at home.

[daffodyllady]

Actually, this pastor is joyfully facing his jail term. He says he has been chosen for this. That God has a ministry for him in jail, perhaps.

As for little girls being mean to each other... I think little girls can be the meanest people on earth! I would encourage this hurting little girl to turn her pain into a positive force. She could look for other children who are treated mean, and reach out to them, to befriend them. Sure, she would lose the "friendship" of those mean girls, but she would learn Kingdom principles and real maturity in the process.

[Jericho]

Boys can be mean too. When I was in school I used to hang with a bunch of guys. I'm not sure I would even call them friends because they never treated me like one. I remember one guy in particular grabbed my backpack and threw all my school work to the wind. I got tired of that after awhile and decided I would rather spend my lunch time alone than with so-called friends who didn't treat me with respect. Sometimes it's better to have no friends than the wrong kind of "friends".

[burien1]

for her, Drdos. The Lord of all loves her dearly. She has to hold onto that when she faces rejection.

[Abiding in His Word]

drdos, I somehow didn't see your request for prayer for your daughter and her very sad experience. She'll be in my prayers for sure. Sometimes all we can do is comfort the hurt. I'm so sorry this happened to her.

[Abiding in His Word]

I know that to be true, Jericho. I'm sorry about the unkind treatment you experienced as well. My two sons can tell a tale or two about mean things they've had happen while in high school.

[drdos]

Bless you Guys for your Prayers! I couldn't sleep last night over it. I love my kids just like all of you. It just kills me to see them hurt. Then I think of how Our Father cares for us when were hurt, and how much more He cares then we do. Blessings!

[Sword of Geddon]

Reminds me of that story of the Christian homeschooled kid in Sweden...only it happened here.

Actually...reminds me of Sodom and Gomorrah..

I was going to post this about righteousness and wickedness earlier:

Eze 3:16 At the end of seven days the word of the LORD came to me:
Eze 3:17 "Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me.
Eze 3:18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for* his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.
Eze 3:19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.
Eze 3:20 "Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.
Eze 3:21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself."

[Sword of Geddon]

These verses also come to mind regarding this story:

Isa 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, you rulers of Sodom; listen to the law of our God, you people of Gomorrah!
Isa 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

Sound like any place in the modern era?

[GodsStudent]

drdos, I have a 12 yr. old girl, so I am very familiar with how they can be. Middle school age is treacherous sometimes. Their bodies are changing and they can be hot, warm, cold, repeat....in about 3 seconds. Im praying for your daughter. I have been praying for mine for some time and I am encouraged that the Lord is working things in her life to help her through this tough age, in these tough times.

[drdos]

drdos, I have a 12 yr. old girl, so I am very familiar with how they can be. Middle school age is treacherous sometimes. Their bodies are changing and they can be hot, warm, cold, repeat....in about 3 seconds. Im praying for your daughter. I have been praying for mine for some time and I am encouraged that the Lord is working things in her life to help her through this tough age, in these tough times.

Thanks so much Sis! I read her a few Psalms last night about treacherous friends/people, and then we prayed for this girl. That seemed to help my daughter. I'll be praying for you and your's as well. Blessings

[Ready1]

Voting is doing something. Being a part of the US political system is doing something. Just as Good4U told me months ago when I was at the same place you are now...if you don't vote you have no right to complain about things.

Does "praying" count as doing something?

[Sword of Geddon]

Voting is doing something. Being a part of the US political system is doing something. Just as Good4U told me months ago when I was at the same place you are now...if you don't vote you have no right to complain about things.

Does "praying" count as doing something?

Of coarse. God is the ultimate authority. Praying for the nation may be the only way to save it...after reading about that shooting against the family research council I think we are that far gone. It really makes me sad.