WEU Transfers Control to ‘The Ten’—The 10 Nations Live On

[Abiding in His Word]

WEU Transfers Control to ‘The Ten’—The 10 Nations Live On

August 09, 2011

On May 27, 2011, a group of nations known as “The Ten” agreed to assume jointly the residual rights and obligations of the defunct Western European Union. “The Ten” are the same 10 nations known formally as the Brussels Treaty Powers.

http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com

[James1:12]

They're still with us... wow.
On the financial side Germany is pursuing a new unelected council to take charge.....
http://euobserver.com/9

Worrying, amazing...

But watching the lawlessness in London and around the UK amongst the youth is tragic.

[James1:12]

Document on the May decision from the EU Satellite Centre:

http://www.eusc.europa.eu/images/storie ... %20weu.pdf

Article 1
Council Joint Action 2001/555/CFSP is hereby amended as follows:
1) The following paragraph is added to Article 2:
‘5. As from 1 July 2011, following the dissolution of the Western European Union (“WEU”), the Centre shall perform the administrative tasks set out in Article 23a.’
2) The following Article is inserted:
‘Article 23a
Administrative tasks following the dissolution of the WEU
1. From 1 July 2011, the Centre shall, on behalf of Belgium, Germany, Greece, Spain, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal, and the United Kingdom (hereinafterresidual administrative tasks of the WEU:
(a) the administration of the pensions of former staff of the WEU;
(b) the administration of the WEU Social Plan;
(c) the administration of any disputes between the WEU and any member of its former staff and the implementation of the decisions of the competent Appeals Board;
(d) assistance to the Ten Member States in relation to the liquidation of the WEU's assets.

7. The Centre shall recruit the staff necessary to perform
the tasks mentioned in paragraph 1. If any of the Ten
Member State offers to second a person for this purpose,
that person shall be recruited. If that is not the case, or if
secondment does not allow to fill all the required posts, the
necessary staff shall be contracted. The Centre's staff regulations
shall be applicable, subject to the provisions of this
Article.

[savedbygrace]

some pertinent scriptures for quick review...

Daniel 7: 7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

Daniel 7:23 “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.[b]

Revelation 12:3
Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.

Revelation 17:12 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

Revelation 17:15 Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. 16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled. 18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

[Bobthewebguy]

There really should be more interest in this story. This could be BIG!

[Abiding in His Word]

Holly also posted in “Recent News” on the home page:

Hal Lindsley reports on “The Ten” (8/5/2011, see second half of the video)

http://www.hallindsey.com/videos/

[Bobthewebguy]

I listened to Bro. Hal. That was great. To bad old Solana wasn't mentioned... Now that would have been interesting.

[Mr Baldy]

After finally viewing the video by Hal Lindsey - which has some great information in it, I find it very misleading, in that he attempts to qualify the "hour" that 'The 10' reign with the Antichrist is a 7 year tribulation period. Hal Lindsey cannot produce any Scriptural evidence that the "hour" that 'The 10' reign is for a period of 7 years. Neither the length, and/or the time period of the "hour"; or how long the tribulation period is, can be found in Scripture.

What is amazing is that Herb Peters mentioned these same facts concerning the WEU when he wrote Recommendation 666 - however, Herb included the evidence that after these '10' were established, Document 666 from this same 10 Nation Confederacy created a Position called the "High Representative", and was subsequently filled by Javier Solana. Why has Hal Lindsey left this very important information out of his video?

I further question why the ENP(I) which Solana "confirmed" for a period of 7 years was also left out of his fact findings. I also continue to question why the ENP(I) is still being grossly ignored, and we have many signs in the World today that point to the fact that we very well could be in the final stages.

The WEU has not disappeared - and I will give Hal Lindsey credit for mentioning that. Why hasn't it disappeared? Must it also "remain hidden" just like the revelation of the coming Antichrist, until they can finally give their power and authority to him for one hour? Is this statement more consistent with Scripture - instead of providing unsupported Scriptural evidence; in that Hal Lindsey has qualified this "hour" as the 7 year tribulation period?

How misleading are the Teachers, Preacher, and Pastors in today's time - and for what motive?

Here again are some Scriptures for consideration:

Daniel 7:7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

Daniel 7:8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.



Daniel 7:24 "The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings."

And last but certainly not least:

Revelation 17:12-13 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast."

In closing, if the WEU are the '10 Kings', then no wonder they haven't received a kingdom - It's because the Antichrist hasn't been revealed yet, and as Scripture clearly mentions they only "HAVE ONE PURPOSE".

[Hisown]

After finally viewing the video by Hal Lindsey - which has some great information in it, I find it very misleading, in that he attempts to qualify the "hour" that 'The 10' reign with the Antichrist is a 7 year tribulation period. Hal Lindsey cannot produce any Scriptural evidence that the "hour" that 'The 10' reign is for a period of 7 years. Neither the length, and/or the time period of the "hour"; or how long the tribulation period is, can be found in Scripture.

What is amazing is that Herb Peters mentioned these same facts concerning the WEU when he wrote Recommendation 666 - however, Herb included the evidence that after these '10' were established, Document 666 from this same 10 Nation Confederacy created a Position called the "High Representative", and was subsequently filled by Javier Solana. Why has Hal Lindsey left this very important information out of his video?

I further question why the ENP(I) which Solana "confirmed" for a period of 7 years was also left out of his fact findings. I also continue to question why the ENP(I) is still being grossly ignored, and we have many signs in the World today that point to the fact that we very well could be in the final stages.

The WEU has not disappeared - and I will give Hal Lindsey credit for mentioning that. Why hasn't it disappeared? Must it also "remain hidden" just like the revelation of the coming Antichrist, until they can finally give their power and authority to him for one hour? Is this statement more consistent with Scripture - instead of providing unsupported Scriptural evidence; in that Hal Lindsey has qualified this "hour" as the 7 year tribulation period?

How misleading are the Teachers, Preacher, and Pastors in today's time - and for what motive?

Here again are some Scriptures for consideration:

Daniel 7:7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

Daniel 7:8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.



Daniel 7:24 "The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings."

And last but certainly not least:

Revelation 17:12-13 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast."

In closing, if the WEU are the '10 Kings', then no wonder they haven't received a kingdom - It's because the Antichrist hasn't been revealed yet, and as Scripture clearly mentions they only "HAVE ONE PURPOSE".

Amen and amen Mr Boldy

Nothing to add but needed you to know that your post resonates 100% and agree fully that the AC will ONLY be revealed at the exact - "appointed-time"- ! not a second before!

This how the Lord has proven to me in the past that His WORD does not return void and the Sovereignty of His ways are oh so perfect...being irrefutable accomplishing His divine purpose alone!

Satan is about to sit on the " seat" of the congregation ( apostatized church) as he seduces her to betray the " resistors" that refuse to conform.Yes satan still has access to the throne room of grace as he " accuses" the brethren...but that is going to change pretty soon here " when there was no place found for him " and he is spitting mad! Was just readin Isa 14 again this morning!

Wachin for the soon abomination that causes her desolation-----the surrounding of Jerusalem

Who is able to stand? I praise God for you and the rest of the big 5

[Loop]

Amen Mr. Baldy.....


edited for my terrible spelling LOL.

[milo3]

Nice post Mr. Baldy, couldn't agree more.

milo3

[david]

Open question:

The "Ten" have always been under suspicion of being the prophetic Ten nations with Ten Kings. So if it's the same suspect countries then what has changed? Is it that they can now continue on? Is it that they are able to appoint leaders now rather than have elected officials? Is it these last two questions that makes it note worthy or is there something else? What do you guys think makes one of these a King?


david

[mrgravyard49]

Ok,, this is all interesting but If we are close to the AOD then where is the Temple?

[Finaldash]

Not relevant here but: Isn't this the same article that Nonymouse already posted a few months ago?

[Bobthewebguy]

I think the name "THE TEN" is interesting. Kindda like...HERE IT IS!!!
Also, I found it interesting that Drudge's headline about the new tattoo was.." Is this the Mark of the Beast?" Also, pretty dogmatic for a secular site..

I'm predicting CONTACT.. in the next few weeks. YES, I said it.. CONTACT with aliens (demons) Right before the rapture, we will get a glimpse of the demonic world...

[water]

Here are what I consider to be good thoughts on this topic.

FWIW

Hal Lindsey falsely announces the fulfillment of Daniel 2

http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?p=2513

[Jericho]

The EU has come together politically and economically. About the only thing they lack to be a bonafide empire is a common army, which is being talked about right now. But for all intent and purposes the Roman Empire has been revived, that fact cannot be overlooked. That kind of cohesion we don't see in the middle-east, about the only thing they can agree on is Israel. As for who the 10 kings are I'm still not sure if they are 10 regional kings (EU style) or 10 global kings (UN style).

[Bobthewebguy]

Boy, Joel Richardson sounds pretty upset. I don't blame him. He has a hard job defending his theory on Islam. Sounds like he's feeling the pressure from his weak biblical stand on who's going to be in charge during the tribulation. If he would only read Ezekial 38 he would see that Islam is all but wiped out in the beginning of the trib. It's hard to stay nice when you're wrong.. IMHO

[water]

At some point, I think many will, as I have, come to the realization that the nations listed in the Bible as part of the antichrist's coalition are not European or even global entities. The nations are named clearly...and they are all surrounding Israel today...Muslim nations.

Watch Turkey.

[Mr Baldy]

Boy, Joel Richardson sounds pretty upset. I don't blame him. He has a hard job defending his theory on Islam. Sounds like he's feeling the pressure from his weak biblical stand

One by one, ALL of these False Prophets will be exposed. They remind me of Politicians, they say what's good for the moment - the naive follow them, then when the evidence is put forth, they all are ashamed.

[Exit40]

Boy, Joel Richardson sounds pretty upset. I don't blame him. He has a hard job defending his theory on Islam. Sounds like he's feeling the pressure from his weak biblical stand

One by one, ALL of these False Prophets will be exposed. They remind me of Politicians, they say what's good for the moment - the naive follow them, then when the evidence is put forth, they all are ashamed.

Mr Baldy, I find your comments to be unfair and biased. According to your statements I am to be considered a false prophet at worst and naiive at best, along with many others here to hold to the islamic paradigm. There is just as much compelling information and Scriptural support for that as there is for the RRE THEORY, in my opinion even more. Nothing is set in concrete at this point and as our purpose here is to examine all of Scripture in light of unfulfilled Prophecy perhaps we should be more careful in our statements about our fellow Believers who happen to disagree with us. I humbly ask you reconsider your words.

God Bless You

David

[Ready1]

Boy, Joel Richardson sounds pretty upset.

He needs to compare notes with Joel Rosenburg!

[Hisown]

Boy, Joel Richardson sounds pretty upset.

He needs to compare notes with Joel Rosenburg!

What I find so fascinating lately is how things are becoming so much clearer now .How is it possible that the thinks we talk of in private, the next day are openly discussed here - humm no need to answer that

No guile from this mouth but the times we are in calls for talking the truth in love.Rather than the kisses of a enemy right!

Wow what a time to be alive

[Tevye]

Here are what I consider to be good thoughts on this topic.
http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?p=2513

Wow, I had no idea...thank you for the link Water.

Let us accurately and responsibly expound the relevant portions of the Bible
as they reveal what is happening in the earth today.
And in all of these things, let us do so with sobriety, humility and integrity.

Well said Joel, well said.

Glory to God!

[Abiding in His Word]

How is it possible that the thinks we talk of in private, the next day are openly discussed here - humm no need to answer that

Hello Hisown,

Would you please clarify what that means for us? I was following the thread up till that point. Thanks!

[Jericho]

Mr Baldy, I find your comments to be unfair and biased. According to your statements I am to be considered a false prophet at worst and naiive at best, along with many others here to hold to the islamic paradigm. There is just as much compelling information and Scriptural support for that as there is for the RRE THEORY, in my opinion even more. Nothing is set in concrete at this point and as our purpose here is to examine all of Scripture in light of unfulfilled Prophecy perhaps we should be more careful in our statements about our fellow Believers who happen to disagree with us. I humbly ask you reconsider your words.

God Bless You

David

Hello David. While I do not follow the Islamic paradigm I do agree we should be careful about labeling someone as false teachers just because they don't fit into our particular viewpoints. We may not agree but we can still be tactful about it. I'm sure when every thing is said and done we will discover none of us were right about everything.

[Hisown]

How is it possible that the thinks we talk of in private, the next day are openly discussed here - humm no need to answer that

Hello Hisown,

Would you please clarify what that means for us? I was following the thread up till that point. Thanks!

Hello Abiding

Nothing really....just an affirmation to me that's all. I was sharing this exact same concern in a conversation last night ( before this was posted ) and it popped up here today...weird eh?

The Lord had given me 5 stones for the days we are about to enter into and that was one of them :)I trust His Holy Spirit and His voice alone in these most deceptive days

1) Zechariah 4:6
Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

2) Revelation 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,

3) and by the word of their testimony;

4) and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Revelation 12:10-12

5) So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Isaiah 55:10-12

Did I offend you? Sorry for derailing the thread.

[Abiding in His Word]

No, Hisown, I wasn't offended. Just confused about that remark, so thank you for the clarification. I thought I had missed something in the thread that I should have understood.

Thanks again!

[Mr Baldy]

Mr Baldy, I find your comments to be unfair and biased. According to your statements I am to be considered a false prophet at worst and naiive at best, along with many others here to hold to the islamic paradigm. There is just as much compelling information and Scriptural support for that as there is for the RRE THEORY, in my opinion even more. Nothing is set in concrete at this point and as our purpose here is to examine all of Scripture in light of unfulfilled Prophecy perhaps we should be more careful in our statements about our fellow Believers who happen to disagree with us. I humbly ask you reconsider your words.

David my comments were not directed towards you, or anyone else in particular - but to those who make money by spreading false information. In the past you have asked me to reconsider my words concerning my "opinions"; when my actions were again, directed towards those who gain by spreading false information in general. I'm sorry that you feel the way that you do - but perhaps you shouldn't internalize things, or take people's "opinions" so personal, especially when they are made in general. After all they are only opinions.

[Exit40]

Hi Mr Baldy. Well, there are two men that I believe you have directed your comments to, Hal Lindsey and Joel Richardson. I don't believe either of these men are insincere or exploiting the Assembly for personal excessive gain. They write what they believe, just as we do. I don't believe everything these guys write, nor anyone else for that matter. I also don't believe they are deliberately spreading false information, or another Gospel, and I don't believe they should be labeled false prophets. Your general statement as such covers way more ground than maybe you intended, but you also made the statement as if fact, not stating this is your opinion, in response to Bob's comments which were not very flattering towards Joel either. Am I internalizing this ? Maybe I am just a sensitive guy, but I think it is more that a general accusation can be taken personally by sincere Christians who are just seeking the Truth, when in Truth we don't know at this point how it will all come together.

I'd like to point something out that you wrote....

In closing, if the WEU are the '10 Kings', then no wonder they haven't received a kingdom - It's because the Antichrist hasn't been revealed yet, and as Scripture clearly mentions they only "HAVE ONE PURPOSE".

I absolutely agree. But I would also like to point out there is a ten nation alliance to the North and East of Israel which includes Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan called the Economic Cooperation Organization which also has the potential to fulfill Prophecy. However, at this point it is difficult to determine their relevance, just as it is for the 'Ten' . However, we must ask ourselves which of these two groups are the more likely to desire world dominance through worship of a false god ? Something to think about in light of Scripture.

I realize you are a gruff guy, very direct, mostly accurate IMO, and you provide sound Scripture for your thoughts. I hope you realize I do like you for these qualities, and Love you as a Brother. All I'm asking is you consider your words more carefully as you make these general statements that can be misunderstood, and possibly are inaccurate.

God Bless You

David

[Mr Baldy]

Hi David,

I want to say that, may God continue to bless you in your conquest to discover the Truth. I do, however, want to point out, and comment on a few things that you have mentioned:

Hi Mr Baldy. Well, there are two men that I believe you have directed your comments to, Hal Lindsey and Joel Richardson. I don't believe either of these men are insincere or exploiting the Assembly for personal excessive gain. They write what they believe, just as we do.

David, after reading your aforementioned comments - I would humbly like to say that if you don't think that these guys, who write and post things based on biblical eschatology; don't do their homework before posting their "opinions" then I believe that you are either misinformed, or naive - and I don't mean either of these in a bad way.

These guys (in my very humble opinion) know, and/or are aware of what is out there, as far as what the Christian community is interested in. This is how those who either have the information, and would withhold, for fear of being embarrassed labeled a False Prophet then subsequently spread false information get paid. Again, in my very humble opinion - is it about them, or is it Truly about God?

I would also like to point out there is a ten nation alliance to the North and East of Israel which includes Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan called the Economic Cooperation Organization which also has the potential to fulfill Prophecy. However, at this point it is difficult to determine their relevance, just as it is for the 'Ten' . However, we must ask ourselves which of these two groups are the more likely to desire world dominance through worship of a false god ? Something to think about in light of Scripture.

Again David, let's let Scripture dictate what we report on - and that ALONE! Where do you get your source of information? I certainly hope that it is NOT what those who read the Quran are about - and further draw their emphasis on what "thus sayeth the Prophet Mohammad". If you are following what the Quran is basing it's premise on - by End Time eschatology, then I would have to most certainly disagree. This appears to be what Joel Richardson's and others are doing.

All I'm asking is you consider your words more carefully as you make these general statements that can be misunderstood, and possibly are inaccurate.

In closing, David let me please say that I have never challenged you personally, nor have asked you to reconsider your views, on what you have posted on the Islamic paradigm . I just wholeheartedly disagree with it, as I believe it absolutely cannot be supported with Scripture - but yet you have personally come after me on generalized statements, not directed towards you, and that in my own opinions. I also question why, you would come after me, as if you are a Moderator, and ask me to reconsider statements that I have an opinion on - and have not attacked, or offended anyone, concerning what you, or others believe in.

What makes your "opinion" greater than mine?

I just ask that we draw from Scripture, and let that be our final Authority.

[Exit40]

Hi David,

I want to say that, may God continue to bless you in your conquest to discover the Truth.

Thank you Brother, I pray the same for you.

I do, however, want to point out, and comment on a few things that you have mentioned:

Hi Mr Baldy. Well, there are two men that I believe you have directed your comments to, Hal Lindsey and Joel Richardson. I don't believe either of these men are insincere or exploiting the Assembly for personal excessive gain. They write what they believe, just as we do.

David, after reading your aforementioned comments - I would humbly like to say that if you don't think that these guys, who write and post things based on biblical eschatology; don't do their homework before posting their "opinions" then I believe that you are either misinformed, or naive - and I don't mean either of these in a bad way.

These guys (in my very humble opinion) know, and/or are aware of what is out there, as far as what the Christian community is interested in. This is how those who either have the information, and would withhold, for fear of being embarrassed labeled a False Prophet then subsequently spread false information get paid. Again, in my very humble opinion - is it about them, or is it Truly about God?

I understand your point, and take no offense to your statement as I am neither. I read what other men say hoping for a glint of information which I compare to my own understanding of Scripture. I don't fully follow any man or what he writes in this day. I do appreciate someone doing their homework, that is having Scriptural support for their own opinions about world events, and presenting them honestly. Some are better than others at this. I think maybe though the title of false prophet gets thrown around a bit too much.

false prophet
pseudoprophētēs

1) one who, acting the part of a divinely inspired prophet, utters falsehoods under the name of divine prophecies
2) a false prophet

I suppose the difference is deliberately misleading as opposed to being in error. I have a fair gift of discernment for both, and I see Hal and Joel as fitting into the latter. I don't see either holding back for fear of what others may say, in fact the opposite. They are both pretty bold and I believe they sincerely wish to inform. So I am unable to place the fp label on them. Nevertheless, both seem to attract attacks and labeling.

I would also like to point out there is a ten nation alliance to the North and East of Israel which includes Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan called the Economic Cooperation Organization which also has the potential to fulfill Prophecy. However, at this point it is difficult to determine their relevance, just as it is for the 'Ten' . However, we must ask ourselves which of these two groups are the more likely to desire world dominance through worship of a false god ? Something to think about in light of Scripture.

Again David, let's let Scripture dictate what we report on - and that ALONE! Where do you get your source of information? I certainly hope that it is NOT what those who read the Quran are about - and further draw their emphasis on what "thus sayeth the Prophet Mohammad". If you are following what the Quran is basing it's premise on - by End Time eschatology, then I would have to most certainly disagree. This appears to be what Joel Richardson's and others are doing.

Actually, my end times studies began ten years before 9/11 and I somehow 'knew', without benefit of reading others, islam would be the entity we would be dealing with, just from reading Scripture. Reading other writers has been informing in some respects, other respects get me deeper into the Word to prove to myself my disagreement with them. No, it is not the koran and it's genuine false prophet that I rely on for my information. Without getting into detail about their book, it seems to be saying it is Ishmael, not Isaac, and Esau, not Jacob, who are the inheritors of Truth, and the Scriptures of the Bible have been corrupted. We believe differently of course as it is Jesus the Son of God who is our Redeemer, while their is the mahdi, a man who they will believe to be a near perfect example of their god, who will redeem them. It is said that muslims will not worship a man, but I say, islam is morphing precisely in that direction. This puts me at odds with so many, yet I hold to it as I believe Scripture and current events point in that direction. I don't know if I am right or wrong, it is a belief I hold because of my studies.

I agree, too much emphasis on the koran is not a good thing, but in essence if it can be shown simply it is the most antichrist religion ever, which their belief God never had a Son proves, and it is in fact another Gospel, which their belief in mohammed and his beliefs prove, then that should be enough to look to today's world to see what is happening in this arena. Current events show us a resurgent islam, statements are being made about a caliphate and their desire to establish it's headquarters in Jerusalem, and if so certainly the Temple Mount will become a serious issue. There is talk of who they think might be the mahdi, and there happens to be a man who fits the description you recently gave. I don't know how this will play out, I only report on it because I believe it fits Prophecy.

All I'm asking is you consider your words more carefully as you make these general statements that can be misunderstood, and possibly are inaccurate.

In closing, David let me please say that I have never challenged you personally, nor have asked you to reconsider your views, on what you have posted on the Islamic paradigm . I just wholeheartedly disagree with it, as I believe it absolutely cannot be supported with Scripture - but yet you have personally come after me on generalized statements, not directed towards you, and that in my own opinions. I also question why, you would come after me, as if you are a Moderator, and ask me to reconsider statements that I have an opinion on - and have not attacked, or offended anyone, concerning what you, or others believe in.

What makes your "opinion" greater than mine?

I just ask that we draw from Scripture, and let that be our final Authority.

No you have not, nor asked me to reconsider my beliefs. I have not asked you to reconsider yours either, in fact I think you are one of the most common sense RRE writers around. I don't feel I have come after you, certainly not as a moderator, and if you feel this way I sincerely apologize as this was not my intention. I do consider you a Brother, a close one even, and maybe in that respect I have felt encouraged to ask you to consider turning an occasional phrase a bit gentler. Maybe I am being too sensitive. It is never my intention to offend anyone, certainly not you singled out as if I am a moderator, but maybe as a closer Brother to me than most, no matter our respective world views. I do see what you are saying though. I offer my apologies for offending you. I hope I have shown my reasons are not intended to be offensive.

God Bless You

David

[Mr Baldy]

Hi again David,

Well let me offer you an apology for reading into what you had originally stated. I do sincerely apologize - that was my mistake.

You appear to be very strong on your belief of the Islamic paradigm. Although I can't accept it, I sincerely admire someone who has the guts to stand up for what they believe. I mean that with all my heart. I do however have a question concerning a comment that you have made. It is in reference to what you have mentioned, as follows:

I agree, too much emphasis on the koran is not a good thing, but in essence if it can be shown simply it is the most antichrist religion ever, which their belief God never had a Son proves, and it is in fact another Gospel, which their belief in mohammed and his beliefs prove, then that should be enough to look to today's world to see what is happening in this arena. Current events show us a resurgent islam, statements are being made about a caliphate and their desire to establish it's headquarters in Jerusalem, and if so certainly the Temple Mount will become a serious issue. There is talk of who they think might be the mahdi, and there happens to be a man who fits the description you recently gave. I don't know how this will play out, I only report on it because I believe it fits Prophecy.

If you know that the Quran; "koran" is dealing with a false religion - then why do you put so much emphasis on it? To me that makes no sense, as we should discard anything that is contrary to the Word of God, in which any study of Islam is. Can you please explain why you are so passionate about it?

[Exit40]

Hi Mr Baldy. Thanks for your comments. They represent the very reason I like you. But I think you are misunderstanding my study of islam. I haven't read extensively in the koran. Honestly, I have tried but I almost become ill when doing so. Rather, I read what Christians and muslims say about some quotes and examine them in the light of Scripture. One man in particular I have read though is Fethullah Gulen, an influential Turkish imam and scholar. While his altruistic writings sound so good to so many, when examined deeper they push islam as the answer to the humanistic side of the equation, not to mention their even deeper mystical side. The AOC has his fingerprints all over it, and the dialogue from it does not accept Christianity nor Judaism, but rather continues to push islam as the final answer and authority. Period. No matter the flowery brotherly dialogue their belief is the rest of us 'people of the book' have been misled by corrupted scriptures. My point is, they are the most antichrist religion ever, promoting another gospel, and their resurgence is happening at a time in history when it might be Prophetically important, possibly being the eighth coming from the seventh empire that suffered a fatal head would, when the caliphate was abolished in Turkey by the founder of their modern republic Kemal Attaturk.

I could gone on for a while but it' is off topic here. I want to respond to your question about why I am so passionate about it. My passion is for Our Lord and the Truth of His Word. At my rebirth He set me as a watchman, personally. And He used words I later found in Scripture, precisely. Perfectly is a better word. So I began my studies and for a reason unknown to me now, and just from reading Scripture I understood it would be islam in the end times. Not knowing at that point when the end times would begin and still not knowing, I am pursuing that path. I feel like I am being guided, but it is Scripture which guides me, and my internal sense that He is with me. Am I doing this perfectly ? Am I correct in all my assessments ? I doubt it. I am just a man and I lay claim to no title, other than I am a watcher on the Eastern wall, striving to do Our Lord's will for me as best I know it to be, doing my best to report honestly what I see from there. I have no ' Word from the Lord ', yet I seek it, and contend earnestly for the Faith once given to the Apostles. I do what I do with the passion I have because I believe I am serving Our Lord. If it turns out differently in the future than I speak, so be it. I don't have to know His purpose, I just have to obey. See, He cannot let me down. But I can misunderstand. So I intend to serve Our Lord now, today, and one day at a time, in the manner I believe He wants me too. He alone is the source of my passion, and the world just reflects His Word, as I understand it.

God Bless You

David

[Exit40]

By the way, as most of my time is spent on the Eastern wall, I do appreciate you all on the Western wall keeping me informed. I haven't thrown you all into the dust bin. The EU is still very relevant to me, maybe not within the standard paradigm, and as time progresses we may indeed see a resurgence there in light of Prophecy. I do appreciate your studies.

God Bless

David

[water]

Here are what I consider to be good thoughts on this topic.
http://www.joelstrumpet.com/?p=2513

Wow, I had no idea...thank you for the link Water.

Let us accurately and responsibly expound the relevant portions of the Bible
as they reveal what is happening in the earth today.
And in all of these things, let us do so with sobriety, humility and integrity.

Well said Joel, well said.

Glory to God!

YW! Glad it was useful info.

I understand why many are still looking for a revived roman empire...to me it doesn't really matter who is right or wrong. In the end, I think all of us will see it coming, as Jesus promised for those who are watching, and when we see those glorious events unfolding, nobody is going to care if they were on base or not...hehe...they will just be cheering the last days of this age on with a ROAR!!!




P.S. Jesus is coming back very, very soon. Keep your eye on the ball, which is Israel.

[good4u1]

Interestingly, I do not believe the EU has ever publicly stated they are seeking global domination unlike radical Islam who clearly states this publicly as their goal. You have to take what is said at face value which is what we failed to do w/the Islamists until 9/11 happened. Fine, you who think the EU is constantly vying for global domination continue to look at the EU...I will take what the Islamists say at face value and what Scripture says about them and the constant mention of Muslim nations in Scripture who are against Israel and I see no difference today. I just don't see England and Spain warring against Israel in Scripture like I do the Philistines (Gaza Strip/Hamas) and Tyre (Hezbollah) and Assyria (Iraq/Iran/Russia alliance) and today nothing has changed these ancient nations of Scripture still war against Israel.

What you see in Scripture must be consistent in today's world geo-political events for you to be taken seriously as legitimate prophecy student. It is really is that clear cut.

[Abiding in His Word]

But in meetings with EU leaders in recent weeks, it has become clear to both German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy that it may not be possible to get all 27 countries on board, EU sources say.

Another option being explored is a separate agreement outside the EU treaty that could involve a core of around 8-10 euro zone countries, officials say.

link

[Douggg]

But in meetings with EU leaders in recent weeks, it has become clear to both German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy that it may not be possible to get all 27 countries on board, EU sources say.

Another option being explored is a separate agreement outside the EU treaty that could involve a core of around 8-10 euro zone countries, officials say.

link

Ahah! Outstanding link.

"The goal is for the member states of the common currency to create their own Stability Union and to concentrate on that," German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble told ARD television on Sunday.

Another option being explored is a separate agreement outside the EU treaty that could involve a core of around 8-10 euro zone countries, officials say.

I am going to hijack your link and copy it in my thread over in the prophecy debate forum. Europe, not Turkey.

Doug

[James1:12]

Not so fast you two:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt ... -live.html

12.25 Several EU member states are urging Germany to drop its demands for changes to the EU treaty, arguing that deeper fiscal integration in the euro zone can be achieved without overhauling the EU's fundamental law, EU sources say. Reuters reports:

Germany has been pushing since early September to change the EU treaty, maintaining that the only way to enforce much tighter budget discipline among the euro zone's 17 countries is to enshrine stricter rules in law.

But several member states inside and outside the euro zone are opposed to changing the treaty, saying it will take too long and prove disruptive if all parties including the European Parliament are involved, and are urging Berlin to drop its demands.

They quote one senior EU official who says:

If you go for treaty change at 27, you cannot avoid the convention. You cannot say we're entering a new stage of fiscal union and at the same time that it's only a limited treaty change that doesn't need a convention. The parliament will never take that.

Instead, member states and EU negotiators are trying to convince Berlin that most of what it wants to achieve in terms of fiscal union in the euro zone can be done via existing legislation, outside the Lisbon Treaty. This mirrors the position taken by British Prime Minister David Cameron after meeting French President Nicolas Sarkozy in Paris on Friday

Well the crisis rumbles on without agreement and the money hole gets deeper and deeper. I think we still have some way to go. The UK has been talking about the eurozine crisis in terms of a national security threat swhich i think is an important element to the rise of AC. The economic situation and the threat of some kind of military action will cause fear to propel Europe into its end time role. Or is it Europe and Turkey, or a Middle East empire only? I'll leave that to history :)

[James1:12]

Oh just to add we may have seen the Eurozone crisis uproot 2 horns in Greece and Italy but there is a problem with this picture.
If there are only 3 of 10 horns uprooted and this means governments turned over to Eurocrats what of Belgium? It is 1 of the 10 WEU ntions and hasn't had a government for over a year now, I believe. This picture is not clear cut yet.

Just checked out the news :

Belgium Gets Six-Party Coalition Government After Record 18-Month Standoff

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-0 ... ation.html

Belgium will get a full-time government as soon as today, ending a record 540 days of post- election brinksmanship between the Dutch-speaking north and French south that kindled speculation of a national breakup at the heart of Europe.

Thats purely a concidence, but it still leaves the picture a bit murky.

[Mr Baldy]

we may have seen the Eurozone crisis uproot 2 horns in Greece and Italy

Hi James,

I believe this may have happened as well. Actually, I really don't see how this could not be an "uprooting" with the top dogs of the EU putting unelected officials into power in these countries.

If this proves to be true, then the "Beast of the Sea" mentioned in Revelation 13 is speaking of the Beast Empire that the coming Antichrist will control. I beieve that the Euro will survive.

[Douggg]

Not so fast you two:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt ... -live.html

12.25 Several EU member states are urging Germany to drop its demands for changes to the EU treaty, arguing that deeper fiscal integration in the euro zone can be achieved without overhauling the EU's fundamental law, EU sources say. Reuters reports:

Germany has been pushing since early September to change the EU treaty, maintaining that the only way to enforce much tighter budget discipline among the euro zone's 17 countries is to enshrine stricter rules in law.

But several member states inside and outside the euro zone are opposed to changing the treaty, saying it will take too long and prove disruptive if all parties including the European Parliament are involved, and are urging Berlin to drop its demands.

They quote one senior EU official who says:

If you go for treaty change at 27, you cannot avoid the convention. You cannot say we're entering a new stage of fiscal union and at the same time that it's only a limited treaty change that doesn't need a convention. The parliament will never take that.

Instead, member states and EU negotiators are trying to convince Berlin that most of what it wants to achieve in terms of fiscal union in the euro zone can be done via existing legislation, outside the Lisbon Treaty. This mirrors the position taken by British Prime Minister David Cameron after meeting French President Nicolas Sarkozy in Paris on Friday

Well the crisis rumbles on without agreement and the money hole gets deeper and deeper. I think we still have some way to go. The UK has been talking about the eurozine crisis in terms of a national security threat swhich i think is an important element to the rise of AC. The economic situation and the threat of some kind of military action will cause fear to propel Europe into its end time role. Or is it Europe and Turkey, or a Middle East empire only? I'll leave that to history :)

The S&P just put 15 Eurozone countries on credit watch for downgrading including France and Germany. While the Antichrist man certainly will have a military prowess, the route is money because the eventual outcome is 666 not being able to buy or sell without it. One of the knocks on Greece is that they don't collect taxes like they should and Sarkozy just mentioned the underground economies, in a flash bit I saw on Bloomberg TV.

England still uses the pound. So they have a backup currency in place. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/2 ... 28096.html

Nicolas Sarkozy To David Cameron: 'You Have Lost A Good Opportunity To Shut Up'

So no love lost there. The problem is that there is no external control over the fiscal policies of the individual countries, and those the fiscal policies of the individual countries can jeopardize the common currency of the other Euro-zone countries. That's what's happening.

To change the basic EU treaty is a lengthy process which they don't have the time for because the debt has racked up so fast - they can keep up by plugging holes in the boat. Thus, the idea is to create something outside of the treaty, but still attached. That's where the talk of the 8-10 Euro-zone countries comes in.

Doug

[Mr Baldy]

England still uses the pound. So they have a backup currency in place.

England may very well be the 3rd horn that is "uprooted" by this Beast Empire. (I believe that the evidence has shown that Greece and Italy may have been the first two).

I know it's very hard to believe, as most of you are expecting the EU to divide and come into this 8-10 region expectation from it's crisis - thus leading to the rise of the coming Antichrist. (And it just might), However, we already have a 7 year Covenant with Many; in the ENP(I), and a man who has confirmed this same covenant (who is has so-called "retired") - and we have the WEU which "was" a 10 Nation Confederacy (Military Wing) of the EU, and they have subsequently turned over their power to this Beast Empire - meaning the EU. So don't be surprised if England(Britain) gives up the pound and conforms to the Euro.

Here is something that was missed in the link that you provided Douggg:

Cameron also claimed that the euro zone crisis was having a "chilling effect" on all European economies, including Britain

and:

The European sovereign debt crisis is certain to weigh on countries like Britain that exist outside the euro zone

and this:

As the European economy slows, so would the British economy

I know that there are those who don't believe that Britain will never give up the pound, or it's sovereignty - but keep this in mind.......if they save the Euro, then we may just see the 3rd horn "uprooted." Look for the Antichrist to shortly come to power, and don't be surprised if it's someone who has held this position before by way of Article 666.

[James1:12]

I don't think the UK sits comfortably as the 3rd horn in that scenaorio others lke Spain, Belgium or even France may go down earlier. The UK has a much more robust economy although it's at great risk from a total Eurozone meltdown.
I'm not yet fully convinced that the 3 horns are being uprroted yet but it's greatly possible, time will tell.

Look for the Antichrist to shortly come to power, and don't be surprised if it's someone who has held this position before by way of Article 666

Good point Mr Baldy, could the Eurozone crisis bring down the EU (headwound) fixed by an emergency WEU revival?

[Mr Baldy]

I don't think the UK sits comfortably as the 3rd horn in that scenaorio others lke Spain, Belgium or even France

The UK may not be the 3rd horn. It's just an educated guess on my part. But let's do take a look at what you are mentioning......

Spain has had an election, France is already a willing participant - so therefore there is no reason for either of these two countries to be "uprooted"; or "forced" to adhere to this EU Beast System. Belgium, to my understanding has never had a governing body that can even be considered as being "uprooted". So therefore, it will be the icing on the cake - at least for me, if the EU Beast can cause Britain to give up it's Sterling Pound; basically be "forced" to give up her sovereingty, and to go to the Euro in order to be in harmony with the rest of this European Beast. It really is a long shot, but we must remember that "all" the banks are connected to the EU in some way, shape, form, or fashion. As the EU goes, so does the rest of the World.

As you have mentioned.......I guess time will tell.

[Douggg]

I don't think the UK sits comfortably as the 3rd horn in that scenaorio others lke Spain, Belgium or even France

The UK may not be the 3rd horn. It's just an educated guess on my part. But let's do take a look at what you are mentioning......

Spain has had an election, France is already a willing participant - so therefore there is no reason for either of these two countries to be "uprooted"; or "forced" to adhere to this EU Beast System. Belgium, to my understanding has never had a governing body that can even be considered as being "uprooted". So therefore, it will be the icing on the cake - at least for me, if the EU Beast can cause Britain to give up it's Sterling Pound; basically be "forced" to give up her sovereingty, and to go to the Euro in order to be in harmony with the rest of this European Beast. It really is a long shot, but we must remember that "all" the banks are connected to the EU in some way, shape, form, or fashion. As the EU goes, so does the rest of the World.

As you have mentioned.......I guess time will tell.

Yes, we are in the area of educated guesses right now. I don't think anyone has been uprooted yet because the little horn does the uprooting, and I don't see an individual person yet to directly remove of any Euro zone leader.

The rest of the world is not wanting to go the way of the EU. That's why no-one wants to buy their bonds. I don't think the Europeans have any choice to but to create a "Fiscal Union" because if the ECB can issue "Euro" bonds to buy back the bad sovereign debt, who is going to buy those bonds - without having confidence in the fiscal responsibility of the politicians in the troubled countries? Merkel was talking about the Friday summit, the outcome will have to be a restoration of confidence. Without a "Fiscal Union", there is no controlling mechanism, which I think is what she is pitching for is a "Fiscal Union" by her comments, also referred to as a "Stability Union".

For those who don't know, there is Monetary policy, which in our country is what the Federal Reserve Banking System does to control the flow of money supply into our economy. And there is the Fiscal policy which is what the government (politicians) does as far as how to budget their government's spending. In the Euro-Zone, the Fiscal policies in the individual countries have spent, spent, spent... on borrowed money. Now they can't make the payments on the interest - which mean the banks who lent them the money may become insolvent.

When that Fiscal Union comes about to control the politicians' spending , that is when the little horn will appear, imo, and that is when he will remove three kings. He has to replace them with other individuals because during the last 42 months the ten kings rule with him when he has transformed into the Antichrist beast.

I don't know who is sitting in seat 666 right now. I think it is vacant (?) There is still a possibility that person could be the little horn, but I don't think it is Solana.

Doug

[Mr Baldy]

Yes, we are in the area of educated guesses right now. I don't think anyone has been uprooted yet because the little horn does the uprooting, and I don't see an individual person yet to directly remove of any Euro zone leader.

Douggg, let me first start by saying that there is a lot of information in your post that many need to consider - to include myself. Now, I will comment on the statement that you have made concerning the "little horn" doing the uprooting.

If one were to view the various translations that are in Scripture, you will see that the "little horn" or the coming Antichrist, is synonymous with the Beast Empire that actually is established before him; in that he and the Beast Empire work together to bring about the work of Satan - and he and he alone, is the one who will come in to perform what Scripture has prophetically proclaimed that he will do. In some translations of Scripture you will see that the 3 horns being uprooted, will have been done by this Beast Empire prior to the rising of the "little horn". The Scripture I am referring to is: Daniel 7:7-8. And this is to be used in conjunction with Revelation 13.

I won't list ALL of the various translations - concerning the "uprooting" ; but I will list the New King James Version, and the ESV - which are very honestly, my personal favorites - and they seem to be in harmony with other translations, which states:

NKJV:

7 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8) I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.

ESV :

7) After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, terrifying and dreadful and exceedingly strong. It had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8) I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.

As you can see, both of these translations are in contrast with the statement that you have made; in that the "little horn" will NOT be the one who actually does the uprooting - and it is the actual "Beast Empire" that does the "uprooting" prior to his actual rise to power. I do however, believe that I have read in another translation (perhaps another section of Scripture) that specifically states that the "little horn" does the uprooting - but I don't have the time right now to look it up. I just wanted to make the comparison, and show the contrast to what you have mentioned so far.

The point that I am attempting to make with all of this is that we may have Bible Prophecy being fulfilled right before our very eyes - yet it is being unnoticed by many.

[Douggg]

Yes, we are in the area of educated guesses right now. I don't think anyone has been uprooted yet because the little horn does the uprooting, and I don't see an individual person yet to directly remove of any Euro zone leader.

Douggg, let me first start by saying that there is a lot of information in your post that many need to consider - to include myself. Now, I will comment on the statement that you have made concerning the "little horn" doing the uprooting.

If one were to view the various translations that are in Scripture, you will see that the "little horn" or the coming Antichrist, is synonymous with the Beast Empire that actually is established before him; in that he and the Beast Empire work together to bring about the work of Satan - and he and he alone, is the one who will come in to perform what Scripture has prophetically proclaimed that he will do. In some translations of Scripture you will see that the 3 horns being uprooted, will have been done by this Beast Empire prior to the rising of the "little horn". The Scripture I am referring to is: Daniel 7:7-8. And this is to be used in conjunction with Revelation 13.

I won't list ALL of the various translations - concerning the "uprooting" ; but I will list the New King James Version, and the ESV - which are very honestly, my personal favorites - and they seem to be in harmony with other translations, which states:

NKJV:

7 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8) I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.

ESV :

7) After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, terrifying and dreadful and exceedingly strong. It had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8) I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things.

As you can see, both of these translations are in contrast with the statement that you have made; in that the "little horn" will NOT be the one who actually does the uprooting - and it is the actual "Beast Empire" that does the "uprooting" prior to his actual rise to power. I do however, believe that I have read in another translation (perhaps another section of Scripture) that specifically states that the "little horn" does the uprooting - but I don't have the time right now to look it up. I just wanted to make the comparison, and show the contrast to what you have mentioned so far.

The point that I am attempting to make with all of this is that we may have Bible Prophecy being fulfilled right before our very eyes - yet it is being unnoticed by many.

I was wondering how you could say that those passages don't say that the little horn is the one who is doing the uprooting. But I think that you are reading "before" whom, and "before" which, as referring to time. But I don't think that is what it means. It is a term that means the person has authority over the others such as, "they were made to appear before the king". Or "I knelt before the Lord."


Doug

[James1:12]

Without making a huge quote of a post, I would say that I tend to lean towards MrBaldy on this one, things can happen before or in the presence of a person without that person being the cause. It may well turn out that the AC does do the uprooting but its not a sure thing by what I can see in scripture here.

MrB as far as the UK goes, it possibly being the 3rd, we are in a very different political and economic situation. If the EU wants to pursue a financial transaction tax (or fiscal union without opt-outs for the UK) the UK won't be forced down this route as it would be financial suicide because a major part of our economy is structured around the financial services unlike Germany or any other European power. We look more likely to leave than cede sovereignty, unless something else occurs - and this story twists and turns daily!

Don't you think for Belgium to be considered a horn as it was part of the WEU and now "The 10" it ought to have a government at the time of the other uprootings?