Lead a Bible study in Phoenix= jailtime!

[daffodyllady]

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/to ... study.html

A Phoenix man who violated city zoning laws by hosting a Bible study in the privacy of his home has started serving a 60-day jail sentence for his crimes.

Michael Salman was found guilty in the City of Phoenix Court of 67 code violations. He was sentenced to 60 days in jail along with three years of probation and a $12,180 fine. A spokesperson for the city attorney confirmed that Salman reported to a county jail Monday afternoon.

...Salman’s incarceration is the result of a long-running feud between the ordained pastor and the city of Phoenix over weekly Bible studies that Salman and his wife hosted in their home. City officials determined that the weekly gatherings constituted a church – and therefore violated a number of code regulations.

The controversy erupted in 2009 when nearly a dozen police officers raided the Salman’s home and a 2,000 square foot building in their backyard. The family had moved their Bible study into the building after the group outgrew their living room.

The charges that sent Salman to jail were a result of that raid – ranging from not posting exit lights above their doors – to not having handicap ramps or handicap parking...

Much more at link.

[jgilberAZ]

My first reaction was as you'd expect from a Christian.

However, I have mixed feelings after reading this:

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-01- ... buying-it/

[daffodyllady]

oooo kayyyy...

And when I looked at the video on the link I posted, I saw the interior of that garage he turned into a "gameroom." Strangest game room I ever saw. Looked like a church interior, able to seat about 100, possibly. Not exactly a "bible study."

These are the kind of people that give Christians a bad name.

[mark s]

Interesting article!

The whole thing makes me wonder.

[daffodyllady]

Salman announced that he was planning to build a church right there in his backyard. He talked about not just Sunday services, but weeknight Bible studies, a workout room and basketball court, even a Christian day care center...

...a document that showed up on the county recorder's Web site. In 1994, Salman had filed paperwork claiming that he belonged to the Embassy of God. That meant, the document claimed, that he didn't need to follow United States law...

,,,In his thinking, they shouldn't face so much as a traffic ticket if they were caught speeding. Just as ambassadors from other countries have diplomatic immunity, so should "ambassadors" from Heaven. (When judges across the country disagreed, soon enough, the movement's popularity faded...

..."People wouldn't have objected if he had 20 people coming over for Bible study," Andrea Julius says. "He was doing that previously, and nobody objected. But when he started this expansion plan, well, everybody became concerned."

...Since construction of the "garage" was stopped last February, Michael Salman has been in the application process for a fully equipped church.To the neighborhood's horror, the city has been moving his application along. Indeed, Salman has overcome every roadblock that's stood in his way.

..."It's very important as we deal with this issue that we make sure we don't do anything unlawful or anything that violates his rights," Fairbanks tells New Times. "If we do that, in the end, the city would lose. So the city is making sure that none of his rights are violated, but at the same time, he has to comply with the city's rules and regulations."...

much more at http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-01- ... buying-it/

[Exit40]

Before we condemn the guy we should check him out to see what it is he is preaching. First of all, the picture of him with the Holy Bible open speaks volumes, but not enough can be discerned from just that. He gets going on something and quotes verse from memory, indicating he has indeed spent time in the Word. So he is saying also people are decadent and lazy, apparently in need of reformation. Umm, pick a thread here where something like this doesn't come up. We comment on how the world as a whole is going down the tubes, and we also speak lovingly of the need to reach out with the Word. We are not a Church here, but we do stick to the foundations of one. I think this guy is probably doing the same. He may not be going about it in the right way in regards to his neighbors, but this has become for him a battle with civil issues which he is doing his best to overcome, and could be better at this, so he can have a church building because his home isn't big enough. His neighbors are concerned about the value of their homes and the quality of their lives because of this. I wonder where they go to Church. Apparently not to the one in their own neighborhood, I am assuming. But they do have a community organization with 1400 members who are to a member against this Church. Where do they meet and how often. Pretty good sized 'church' in it's own right I must say , whose doctrine is NIMBY, and don't mess with our lifestyle and property values. Maybe this guy was sent by the Lord to speak to them about the futility of just such a doctrine.

Who ya gonna support here, the NIMBY's or the guy that says somehow this will Glorify God. Can't wait to hear how his sermons go in tent city. If they allow him to speak.

God Bless

David

[milo3]

As a General Contractor myself, there is a reason for building codes and building zones. This guy, Christian or not appears to be very close or already has violated many building codes and zones. Without these codes and zones we would have a mess in most of our cities very fast. Do the city, state and federal codes go overboard sometimes? Without a doubt yes, but this is not the case here IMHO.

There is a difference between having a Bible study in a quiet neighborhood and someone who decides to build a church in that same neighborhood with outdoor amplification with hugely increased car traffic. I know if I lived in this neighborhood I would not be happy. The building zones and the separation that they provide between different building types, for the most part is our friend.

I guess my main question is this, if this man is a pastor who is attracting large audiences, why does he not go rent a public building like a school and start a church in a more appropriate facility that can accommodate him? This building would already have all of the handicap accessibility issues in place, be in an appropriate location and would be made to handle the car traffic and noise.

Seems like the good neighbor thing to do.

milo3

[GodsStudent]

I agree, milo3

[Exit40]

The guy had to get permits for his building, maybe he didn't have a contractor because he couldn't afford one, to do it right. Plus, he may have been deceptive as to the purpose of the building. He says he jumped through every hoop to get the building correct, which means he was subject to inspection, and evidently after the fact once the purpose of the building became known. Sounds too like a wishy washy City Council further confused the matter, trying to avoid violating laws pertaining to religious endeavors like neighborhood churches, which the guy was zoned for, and nit picked the law and codes a bit at a time drawing out the whole process. This whole affair was mismanaged from top to bottom on all sides. If everybody is honest it's easy to do it right.

So, religious persecution ? Not hardly in this case, but it's easy to say so because of the slippery slope we all may find ourselves on. Oh no !!!! What's going to happen next ?!? But this all started with a police raid on a home Bible study group, popular enough to attract too many participants for the home. But deserving of a police raid ? Cmon, how about a nice letter explaining the whatfor's and whynot's, or an official visit, and following up in a civil manner so as to head off the shindig this became ? Makes one wonder, just where is the grave stone of common sense and decency.

Still looking forward to see if the guy gets to preach or teach Bible study in jail.

God Bless

David

[Sword of Geddon]

I think its just more of the same from a government that wants to control your life in every way they shouldn't..while ignoring what they should actually do.

[MChat]

Being someone from the Phoenix area please allow meto comment on the "New Times" publication being used as a reliable, trustworthy news source:

The "New Times" is an extremely liberal anti-Christian rag that isn't worth the recycled paper it is printed on. I have yet to read an article from them which was not slanted to the Left so far they make CBS look conservative. I would take any article of theirs with extreme skepticism.

[daffodyllady]

Being someone from the Phoenix area please allow meto comment on the "New Times" publication being used as a reliable, trustworthy news source:

The "New Times" is an extremely liberal anti-Christian rag that isn't worth the recycled paper it is printed on. I have yet to read an article from them which was not slanted to the Left so far they make CBS look conservative. I would take any article of theirs with extreme skepticism.

Wow, thanks! I had no idea. The name sure sounds legit. I guess it just shows you can never tell.

[Rudi]

I've been following this story very closely over the past month or so.
Reading today I see that many online Christian news sites that had previously written with concern and support for Michael Salman and his family in their coverage of this story - have decided to pick up the secular media mantras that; "this isn't about first ammendment rights, this is about zoning ordinaces“ and "Michael Salman hasn't followed Biblical principles and instruction for submitting to the governing authorities”. Many are now posting the “Official Fact Sheet Regarding the Michael Salman Case” put out by the City of Phoenix Official Website . Read the Official City of Phoenix “facts” and then compare it with the Rutherford Institute Fact Sheet about the case. After literally having spent hours and hours reading everything I can find on this case, I'm convinced this is so NOT about building code violations - regardless of what is being reported. I was so disappointed to watch even this mornings Fox News report on the case- They've gone from giving a fair, balanced and unbiased account of this case several weeks ago, to today leaving viewers with the impression that Salman is essentially a shady character, emphasizing his criminal past when he was involved in a shootout, his impersonating a police officer, his being in violation of probation, and that he is in prison solely for violating city building ordinances - which by the way is disputed by his attorneys.

Fox News failed to mention that the shootout occurred 20 years ago (1992) when Salman was a teenage gang member. He was sentenced to six years in prison, did the time, and turned his life around because of Jesus. Re: Impersonating a police officer, yes - sort of - a very foolish act by a young man more than 15 years ago, but to me, not as horrible as it is being presented in most media. It certainly has nothing to do with the current case. Reports have described the misdemeanor like this:

…”after getting out of prison and becoming a pastor, he'd been booked on a misdemeanor for impersonating a police officer. According to court records, a girl from Salman's fledgling congregation was fooling around with an older boy; at the parents' request, Salmon went over to the boy's house and pretended to be a cop to scare him.”

For anyone interested, John W. Whitehead of The Rutherford Institute has just written a thought provoking commentary titled:
"The Overcriminalization of America: Are We All Criminals Now?"

https://www.rutherford.org/

Please take the time to read both Fact Sheets. Two different sets of FACTS about the same case. The Rutherford Institute is very careful about the cases they take on and for whom they will risk their professional reputations defending and representing. There are regular accurate updates on this case posted on the Rutherford Institute site.


Fact Sheet from the Phoenix Government site

http://www.phoenix.gov/news/071212salmanfacts.html


***Rutherford Institute Fact Sheet

https://www.rutherford.org/files_images ... Sheet1.pdf


Still Watching & Praying - Ruth

[Sword of Geddon]

Sounds like everyone is yelling "Crucify him!" with regards to this Michael Salman guy doesnt it?