Romney Vs. Obama

[Sword of Geddon]

Since I figure the primaries are pretty much over in all but name(Newt and Ron Paul aren't going to beat Romney), I decided that its time to start talking about Romney and how he can defeat his excellency in november.

So far it seems Romney is leaning towards using his own opponent's mistakes against him, similiar to a common counter-attack in many forms of martial arts. Romney recently said "if the first three years are a glimpse into the future, than we definitely don't want another four for the current President" or something like it.

Some might believe Romney is too moderate, that he will be like Mccain and "turn the other cheek", allowing Obama to walk all over him right into the white house. But Romney is not Mccain.

I doubted Romney, part of me still does, but I've done some research. Did you know that "Senator Tea Party" aka Demint was a supporter of Romney's last time he ran for President in 2008? That support continues to this day. Demint is a rock-solid conservative, and he would not back someone unless he believed in that person.

Think about it this way. The Left is scared of Romney. They would not be scared if he was one of them, a Progressive. While Romney holds some big-government views, his aim is to save, restore and fix America, not destroy it as the left wishes to do. So Obama, Soros and all the other usual suspects are trying to make Republicans, Conservatives and Independents alike doubt Romney.

They WANT you not to go to the polls and vote. Don't be fooled.

[Sword of Geddon]

An excellent article:

http://www.redstate.com/irondiopriest/2 ... g-to-live/

[bluejay]

My daughter sent this to me.. has anyone else read this? She called me saying that her x-mother-in-law who is morman came home from the temple in Salt Lake City. She says that the mormans are very excited for one of their phrophecy's is being fulfilled having one of them as President. She says something about being part of the White horce. That the mormon belief with be strongly suggest if we know whats best for us. She says that Romney holds a high up position in the morman church. I have nothing to back that up. I don't know if anyone else has heard this. But she sent this to me and I wanted to share it.
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n2226.cfm

[benny balerio]

A taxpayer voting for Obama is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders!

[Abiding in His Word]

[HighBeams]

My daughter sent this to me.. has anyone else read this? She called me saying that her x-mother-in-law who is morman came home from the temple in Salt Lake City. She says that the mormans are very excited for one of their phrophecy's is being fulfilled having one of them as President. She says something about being part of the White horce. That the mormon belief with be strongly suggest if we know whats best for us. She says that Romney holds a high up position in the morman church. I have nothing to back that up. I don't know if anyone else has heard this. But she sent this to me and I wanted to share it.
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n2226.cfm

Hi, bluejay! What your daughter's ex-MIL says, from my understanding of Mormonism, is basically true. I live in the Phoenix metro area, about 30 minutes away from one of the oldest and biggest Mormon temples. The Mormon stakes (church buildings) are everywhere, about 5 to 10 miles apart all over the Valley. The missionaries on their bicycles are a very common sight here.

From the beginning, Mormons strongly denied being Christian. Their founder, Joseph Smith, Jr., founded the church on the testimony of his vision in which Jesus and Father God appeared to him and told him not to join any of the established churches because they were all wrong. In recent years, though, Mormons have been identifying themselves as Christians. It all sounds really good, until you start asking questions about their definitions. For starters, the Jesus in Mormonism is not the Jesus we find in the Bible. The Mormon Jesus, among other things, is a half-brother of Lucifer. While Jesus died on the cross, Mormon doctrine states that the shed blood of Jesus Christ is not sufficient to cover all sins. There are some sins--such as murder--where the only payment strong enough to eliminate the debt is the shedding of one's own blood. (This is why for so many years the firing squad was a legal method of execution in Utah prisons.) Here's a link to a site that tells you about Mormonism's roots and beliefs.

http://www.isitso.org/guide/mormon.html

I would not be surprised by a prophecy in which a Mormon is to become President. Many years ago, here in Arizona we had a governor by the name of Evan Mecham. He was a strong Mormon, and he stated several times that he believed his governorship to be the fulfillment of a Mormon prophecy. He got into quite a bit of legal trouble while in office and was eventually impeached after a court battle. He steadfastly refused to step down until forced out of office because he believed so strongly in this prophecy that he felt was about himself.

The Mormon church is governed by The President (who is also their Prophet). The President is chosen by the Quorum of Twelve, who are the next in line. The Quorum of Twelve are chosen by The President. All positions here are held until the death of the holder. For a Mormon man to be a highly successful businessman, politician, etc., he must be a Mormon in good standing with Temple privileges. He is subject to the will of The President and the Quorum of Twelve. He must financially support the Mormon church with a set percentage of his income. If he does not conform to the expectations of the Mormon governing bodies, then they do not give him their full support and he is not as successful in his job. Which brings us to Mitt Romney. For the most part, I believe, the Mormon heirarchy lets politicians at Romney's level conduct their business as they wish. However, if The President or the Quorum of Twelve deem it necessary that their politicians support and vote in a certain direction for the good of the Mormon church, they will expect him to conform. This is why, while I'd love to see Obama fail to be re-elected, I have very real reservations about Romney as president.

[Sword of Geddon]

At least Romney has core convictions and morals..Obama has none, he betrays his friends and so called principles at a whim.

Also the Mormons love America and want to save it. I think that is preferable to Obama's attitude of destroying America.

Unless of coarse the US is mystery babylon..in which case it will be destroyed no matter who is in office.

[good4u1]

For the most part, I believe, the Mormon heirarchy lets politicians at Romney's level conduct their business as they wish. However, if The President or the Quorum of Twelve deem it necessary that their politicians support and vote in a certain direction for the good of the Mormon church, they will expect him to conform. This is why, while I'd love to see Obama fail to be re-elected, I have very real reservations about Romney as president.

This is my concern too, HighBeams...let's be clear...Mr. Romney is first and foremost a cultist, spiritually speaking. Is he better than the secular-progressive Obama? I'm not sure. Because both can be equally dangerous for a variety of reasons against Christians.

The question remains is the devil you know better than the devil you don't? A question I have no answer for.

However, most Americans do not see it the way you and I do...and certainly not mainstream liberal Christians. I had a very big discussion on the topic of Romney the cultist not long ago in this section...

See here: http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=62273

[good4u1]

At least Romney has core convictions and morals..Obama has none, he betrays his friends and so called principles at a whim.

Also the Mormons love America and want to save it. I think that is preferable to Obama's attitude of destroying America.

Unless of coarse the US is mystery babylon..in which case it will be destroyed no matter who is in office.

Sword, I can assure you that America is in no way Mystery Babylon. Not even in the same ball park. So no worries there.

[daffodyllady]

Consider the fact that when Paul told the Romans to "honor the king," he was talking about Nero.

We are talking about the election of a President for our country. Not the choice of a minister for the church. I do think there are quite different requirements to qualify for each of these different jobs. For the church, we would want some one who knows the Lord intimately, and holds to the pure doctrine of the Word of God. It wouldn't matter so much if he understands economics or how private enterprise works.
On the other hand, a national President needs to know how our economy works. He needs to stand for individual freedom, and to be completely loyal to our Constitution.

I am sure that if we would hold George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Ronald Reagan up to inspect their religious beliefs, not one of them would pass muster. Yet they made good presidents. Why? Because they held to good economic and Constitutional doctrine.

Yes, the Mormons are all excited about Romney getting elected. Does that mean their prophecy is true? No. Does that mean they will take over the country? No. What it does mean, is that people will start talking about Mormonism and Christianity. We will probably be given more opportunities to speak with our neighbors as to why we do not think Mormonism is doctrinally correct. And I think we ought to count our blessings in that regard.

*edited to add*

... And I do not trust information from cuttingedge.org.
They tend to be a little out in weirdo field, IMHO. Waaaay out into conspiracy stuff.

[Jericho]

With all his flaws I believe Romney is still 100 times better than Obama. I honestly don't think our republic could stand another 4 years of Obama. Yes Romney tends to lean to the left at times, but that's when we have to reign him in. As far as his religious beliefs, well I don't think that has ever been a factor in his political career before has it? At least we know where he stands, Obama claims to be a Christian but his actions dictate otherwise. Ideally I would like to see a conservative Christian in office, but beggers can't be choosey. Either Romney or Obama will be the next president, theres nothing we can do about that. We just have to pick the lesser of two evils now.

[good4u1]

Because of our secular-progressive culture now (we are rapidly approaching parity with Europe) a true conservative republican will never again be elected to Presidential office a-la Reagan. Period. It is a sad fact all politically conservative-traditionalists must accept, me included. So we make the best of a very, very bad situation...we do this:

We are that close to the end of this age..how close? My lifetime. That close.

Jericho and daf, what you follow spiritually will always shade your presidential decisions whether you are aware of it or not.. and that is what is scary.

I knew Obama was not what he claimed his background as a political community organizer was no where near the qualification to be a national President. But in the last Presidential cycle that, for some reason, didn't matter to the American electorate no matter if Ronald Reagan could come back to life, a Republican had no chance. So we have suffered in more ways than one. Failed policy after failed policy of the ultra-left, Obama will never succeed in a capitalist economy. But the question remains, have the American electorate learned that as well? We will see come November.

[GodsStudent]

This is where we are headed. It can and will get worse. Until then, everything that is done appears to be setting the stage for this, ultimately. I don't feel like I am voting my will for a president, regardless of whom I cast a vote for.

Rev. 17-12-13 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

[Exit40]

Jericho and daf, what you follow spiritually will always shade your presidential decisions whether you are aware of it or not.. and that is what is scary.

What's scary is that what either one as President follows spiritually will always shade his Presidential decisions, whether they are aware of it or not. But I suspect they both do.

God Bless You

David

[good4u1]

I'm not so sure about that, David.

I do not think either Obama or Romney are so spiritually aware that they understand that spiritual principle and dimension of decision-making at that high of a level. That is why we need to constantly pray for our national leaders before the LORD who sovereignty controls the universe and everything in it, that we ask for outcomes in His name according to His will. Otherwise, why bother praying for our political leaders at all?

I have yet to hear Obama or Romney ask for prayer for them on their behalf for anything.

[daffodyllady]

interesting article here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/20/us/po ... wanted=all

Romney’s Faith, Silent but Deep

"...Relying on Prayer

Though Mr. Romney almost never discusses it or performs it in public, prayer is a regular and important part of his life, say friends who have joined him. They describe him closing his eyes and addressing God with thees and thous, composing his message to suit the occasion, whether at a church meeting, at a hospital bedside or in a solemn moment with family and friends.

“Prayer is not a rote thing with him,” said Ann N. Madsen, a Bible scholar and a friend. Rather than requesting a specific outcome, he more often asks for strength, wisdom and courage, according to several people who have prayed with him. “Help us see how to navigate this particular problem,” he often asks, according to Dr. Lewis Hassell, who served with Mr. Romney in church.

Former colleagues say they do not recall Mr. Romney praying in the workplace — some say they barely heard the word “God” come from his lips — but he did pray about work from his home.

“I remember literally kneeling down with Mitt at his home and praying about our firm,” Bob Gay, a former Bain colleague and current church official, told Jeff Benedict, author of “The Mormon Way of Doing Business.” “We did that in times of crisis, and we prayed that we’d do right by our people and our investors.” ...

[Sword of Geddon]

Because of our secular-progressive culture now (we are rapidly approaching parity with Europe) a true conservative republican will never again be elected to Presidential office a-la Reagan. Period. It is a sad fact all politically conservative-traditionalists must accept, me included. So we make the best of a very, very bad situation...we do this:

We are that close to the end of this age..how close? My lifetime. That close.

Jericho and daf, what you follow spiritually will always shade your presidential decisions whether you are aware of it or not.. and that is what is scary.

I knew Obama was not what he claimed his background as a political community organizer was no where near the qualification to be a national President. But in the last Presidential cycle that, for some reason, didn't matter to the American electorate no matter if Ronald Reagan could come back to life, a Republican had no chance. So we have suffered in more ways than one. Failed policy after failed policy of the ultra-left, Obama will never succeed in a capitalist economy. But the question remains, have the American electorate learned that as well? We will see come November.

The many tea party victories and the taking of the GOP by the tea party, not to mention the fact that over one half of the country is conservative makes the idea that there never will be another conservative president sort of ridiculous.

And here you are calling me a negative nancy in past discussions.

[good4u1]

I don't see what I said as negative, but being realistic and what dangerous forces (both spiritual and physical) we are up against. Let's see, the last two republican presidents Bushes were never true-blue conservatives but moderates and RINO's. And the current GOP beauty contestant is certainly no conservative even tho' he would like to claim the title! It is just hard to see that changing anytime soon. That is unless, the American electorate, and esp. the swing voters decide they have had enough of entitlements and dependency and stand up for themselves.

Even if what you say that more than half the country is conservative, doesn't ring true in election results, does it? Conservatives are a voice, but completely outgunned. But luckily, not marginalized yet.

[Sword of Geddon]

Conservatives have ousted rinos from power all across the country. Even long time establishment GOP have been removed, and when they arent removed..they hang on by the skin of their teeth, such as Mccain did after a Tea Party challenge from the right.

This is going on all over the country. To claim conservatism is endangered just doesn't match reality. THe group that is endangered is the RINO republicans. It is not the TEA party that will be the third party..it is the RINOs after they are ousted from the GOP.

Bush 1: Was elected because people thought he would continue the Reagan policies into the new decade. He lost power when he revealed himself as a "moderate"

Bush 2: Was elected because he pandered largely to values voters, right to life, defense of marriage etc. In terms of social values he was a true conservative. In terms of economics he was not, which is what made him unpopular his second term.

ROmney: Has a good record in my state. MA had a good and growing economy under his policies. Don't believe the lies coming from disgruntled conservative groups or the progressives like I did, Romney is solidly pro-life and pro-marriage. He fought state funding for abortions and legalizing gay marriage while he was governor. Because he could not stop the state supreme court many conservative groups blame him, and much of the misinformation calling Romney a liberal is actually from conservative groups lying about his record.

[good4u1]

What you say may be true...but will he be able to overcome all this in his message...it is a very BIG question. Honestly, Sword, Romney has an up hill battle and he better be "doubling down" in this very high and powerful big stakes game. He has a lot against him, first and up front the elite media who is squarely seeking the re-election of Obama. If Romney doesn't start getting his message out about his record in a bigger way, it will be lost in the static of voters' minds. So far, I have not seen this happen, maybe it still will. Yes, I will be voting for Romney in the General...but he needs the Independents as well as conservatives to help him win. If he doesn't do this, Obama is re-elected.

[Sword of Geddon]

Obama isn't very popular nationally right now..despite what the polls will have you believe...

[Jericho]

I think it's going to be a very close race. At this point I give Romney a 50/50 chance.

[good4u1]

Obama isn't very popular nationally right now..despite what the polls will have you believe...

Is this just your personal opinion or you have a credible source and preferably more than one to back this statement up? I think Jericho is right...right now at this point in time it is a tie between the two political candidates which is very surprising actually. The economy is depressed, the private business sector is static, and our national debt is crushing us...Obama has done nothing in FOUR years to address these problems and in fact, has made national debt worse.

We will see if the American Electorate agrees and will truly vote Obama out and give Romney a chance. It is a toss-up right now.

[Sword of Geddon]

If they don't then it will prove the american electorate are incredibly stupid, that the american experiment has failed, and that the US is doomed as a nation.

[Sword of Geddon]

Election results in states where Obama issues pop up and are defeated prove he isn't as popular as polling would have you believe.

The fact he was booed by MA citizens at fenway park tells me he isn't as popular as polling would have you believe.

The fact elections these days nearly always end up with tea party victories tells me Obama isn't as popular as polling would have you believe.

Obama is going to...lose.

[good4u1]

Okay, this is your opinion which is okay but no real data for it other than wishing. If it matters, I wish that too. But Romney's msg must be in sharp contrast to Obama's and the incredibly uninformed American electorate needs to make a decision; otherwise, they look like two sides of the same coin to them, we do not have long to wait less than 6 mos.

[Sword of Geddon]

Okay, this is your opinion which is okay but no real data for it other than wishing. If it matters, I wish that too. But Romney's msg must be in sharp contrast to Obama's and the incredibly uninformed American electorate needs to make a decision; otherwise, they look like two sides of the same coin to them, we do not have long to wait less than 6 mos.

Another Obama term and he goes up on my anti-christ-o-meter if you catch my drift.

[good4u1]

@ Sword!

I just don't see that...but there is no doubt Obama is an enabler. If you read my post in the Whatever section of the board on Joel Richardson's interview with a very prominent Muslim political analyst and writer within the Muslim world he expects the formation of a Caliphate within 10 years if not sooner and interestingly, he said he would not be surprised if the Caliphate was formed first PRIOR to the appearance of al-Mehdi. The last part of my last sentence is exactly what Daniel 7:24 states as a chronology of events. I highlighted in red lettering the biblical prophetic alarm bells that went off in my head as I read that article on Joel's Trumpet website. I highly suggest you read the entire interview for full context and significance of exactly how close we are to the end of this fallen age. I feel, at the most, we have maybe three more General Election cycles until the end of this age. But that is only my personal opinion and I could be wrong, what do I know!

[kirthril]

Think about it this way. The Left is scared of Romney. They would not be scared if he was one of them, a Progressive.

I am going to dispute this. The left isn't scared of Romney at all. Harken back to last year. Remember the absolutely vicious character assassinations and attacks from the left on Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, Herman Cain, all of who were true conservatives. Just remember just how disgusted we were when the "pro women" left tore at those ladies faster than a piranha tears at flesh. The easiest way to tell who the left fears and hates most is who they attack the most.

Now compare that to the attacks on Romney both during this general election and during the Republican primaries...
.....
.........
.............
Hear that? Nothing? That's right. The left is practically silent compared to the assassination jobs on the aforementioned 3. Yes they are still attacking him, but its so... i guess tame is the right word compared to what we saw before.

I think it because they know Romney will be easier for Obama to run against and because of his record, make america doubt Romney just enough to have Obama reelected. OOOORRRR... Romney is yet another closet progressive.
...............................................

Now as for are we better off with Romney than obama? For sure... However I think so much damage has been done already that there is absolutely nothing Romney can do in just 4 years to correct everything. And that's assuming he does all the economically right things.

The biggest thing is this: Romney needs to focus on the economy and economy only. He CANNOT let Obama and the left bog him down on Social issues. Even if he gets elected president, he needs to focus all 4 years on the economy. Social issues will not put americans back into the work force, it will not solve the SS, medicaid, medicare crisis, or the debt, or improve the economy. Romney WILL lose to obama on social issues, and the left knows it, thats why obama is avoiding talking of his economic record.

[Sword of Geddon]

If social issues don't matter in this nation anymore than perhaps it deserves four more years of Obama and even complete destruction.

I'm sorry but the fact millions are dying in the largest holocaust in history matters. The forcing of the homosexual agenda on everyone matters.

If most voters don't care..maybe they deserve all the horrors a dictatorship would bring?

Because the only issues that really matter ARE the social issues. And if you think about it..all issues are really social issues.

If the world made sense Obama would not even be President to begin with.

[Sword of Geddon]

I'm sorry but I'm just tired of hearing that election is only about the economy and nothing else. Its not just about the economy. Its about the role of government, its about good vs evil. Its about so much more than a person having a little less cash than normal.

[Jericho]

I'm sorry but I'm just tired of hearing that election is only about the economy and nothing else. Its not just about the economy. Its about the role of government, its about good vs evil. Its about so much more than a person having a little less cash than normal.

I agree, we have prospered economically because we prospered spiritually first. The moral\social issues do matter. Without a solid moral foundation the country will implode regardless of economy.

[kirthril]

What i am getting at is this:

60-70% of the american electorate (depending on which poll you look at) has already stated that the economy will be the determining factor in who they choose for next president.

So if the electorate has already said what it is focusing on, then it makes sense for Romney to push economy economy economy. And that's what i was saying. Obama can't push economy, because his record is terrible and no "americans aren't better off now than 4 years ago", and because of his massive spending, unpayable debt etc etc. All Obama can run on is social issues.

And from what i glean, most americans (save for liberals and illegals) cant stand Obama's stance on many social issues. So social issues are a moot point for Romney as most americans are already against Obama in that regard. Romney HAS to convince america that He can do what is right for the economy and gain trust, when trust in the federal gov't is falling faster than a 5ton weight.

That was the point i was making. Didn't mean to offend. Of course social issues are important. But many need to take a back seat at least for now. We can all see, that when the gov't gets bogged down in too many things at once, nothing gets done. So maybe just once, we can have a president who soley focuses on the main thing. The Economy. As for the spiritual state of our country, affecting us... We are in decline. Agreed on that. And on that point, there may not be a fix at all till the 2nd coming.

[daffodyllady]

Romney was here in VA today... here's a link to hear his entire speech.

http://www.rightspeak.net/2012/06/mitt- ... ginia.html

[brandon]

As for the spiritual state of our country, affecting us... We are in decline. Agreed on that. And on that point, there may not be a fix at all till the 2nd coming.

I beg to differ. I have a book (or had, I lent it and it hasn't been returned yet after 5 years!) called "Why Revival Tarries," by Leonard Ravenhill. This book was published in the 1950's, and you know what I found? They were struggling with the SAME issues we are today! In his introduction he speaks of hundreds of thousands of illegal abortions performed in the United States each year, teen pregnancy, etc.

I went and researched premarital sex in the 1700's and 1800'S, a period of great revivals here in America. What I found was also equally shocking - in the 1700's around 10% of women were showing up pregnant on wedding day, and by the mid-1800's, that number had risen to between 30-40%.

The Church's preoccupation with trying to get things "back to the good 'ole days" is the wrong play. You want to get hearts to change on abortion? People need to get saved. That's not to say I won't support a pro-life candidate - obviously I would! But here's what I'm saying: what America needs is not prayer in schools, or to end the abomination of gay marriage, or to stop the atrocity of abortion, or end teen pregnancy. We don't need to eradicate homelessness, or poverty, or hunger. Though all of those things I would love to see end, we have a promise from our Lord that things will get worse, not better, before His return. And though I pray those things would end, and I think the Church has a part to play in ministering to all forms of sin and human suffering, ultimately that's a secondary mission. Our ultimate mission in the earth is to proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Not that I do a great job of that personally. Frankly, I think it's easier to tell people why abortion is wrong than to proclaim Jesus crucified and resurrected because of the horror of human sin. So while I love this country, the freedom and prosperity we have here, ultimately those things could both end in the blink of an eye.

[Sword of Geddon]

To not fight against evil is to be partly responsible for it. During the second world war many Christians had that attitude. They did not get involved or oppose evil when they were given the opportunity to do so. It was a minority of Christians that helped the Jews and others from extermination.

The result of the lukewarm "don't get involved" attitude with Christianity in early 20th century Europe was the near complete destruction of Christianity in Europe. Why? Because Christians did not stand for anything. They condoned evil. Starting with Darwin's theory of evolution in the late 1800s, the church in Europe promoted lies. It was no longer different from the non-believers.

So in Europe..Christianity died.

If Christians in the US do not stand against evil..than there will be nothing but apostasy here was well. This country is actually on the edge of losing its Christian culture completely. It is only the influx of believers from other countries coming here that is keeping the US from becoming like Europe.

Christ warned against becoming Lukewarm. Lukewarm stands for nothing. For Christianity Lukewarm means the destruction of Christianity, history has proven it, as has scripture.

[kirthril]

As for the spiritual state of our country, affecting us... We are in decline. Agreed on that. And on that point, there may not be a fix at all till the 2nd coming.

I am afraid i am being taken the wrong way with my statement here. When i say there is may not be a fix, it is not the same as we should all give up or stop trying. I think you guys are thinking that is what i meant. Sorry if i came across that way. We still have a job to do, but with the way things are lining up we may not be able to, or it may be too late, to"fix" the moral decay of our society until the 2nd coming. What we can do is do what you guys just said and "keep on keepin on".

[brandon]

The result of the lukewarm "don't get involved" attitude with Christianity in early 20th century Europe was the near complete destruction of Christianity in Europe. Why? Because Christians did not stand for anything. They condoned evil. Starting with Darwin's theory of evolution in the late 1800s, the church in Europe promoted lies. It was no longer different from the non-believers.

So in Europe..Christianity died.

The reason why Europe failed was due to the mainline denominations giving up real faith in Christ and embracing liberalism and a social gospel of "get involved and meet people's needs" instead of "preach the Gospel and change people's lives". And as such, it abandoned core church doctrine, resulting in empty, meaningless institutions.

The church doesn't stand against evil, it stands for Christ, and it proclaims His victory over evil through His death and resurrection. That's very different.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't try and stop abortion, or vote against the gay marriage movement, or feed every hungry child. I'm just saying that those things should not be on the very top of our list. Trying to permanently fix social issues through the use of political movements, protest, and legislation will not work. Ever. Look at the long list of progressive movements in our nation and you will see no 100% successes. Why? Because ultimately human hearts were not changed through Christ. Prohibition failed. Roe v Wade is alive and well. More and more states are adopting pro-gay marriage legislation. Even though civil rights movement of the 1950's and 1960's was successful in giving blacks the rights afforded them under the Constitution, ultimately it didn't solve racism in America. Today, racism is alive and well, just repressed.

The problem has to do with human hearts. To illustrate my point, look at the ancient city of Ephesus. After two years of non-stop Gospel preaching, everybody in the city had heard the Gospel of Jesus, and there were so many disciples of Jesus that the silversmiths started a riot because they were losing money since fewer and fewer people were buying idols. THAT is how you effect social change in culture. Restraining sin through legislation, while helpful in curbing evil in society, ultimately will always fail to fix it. Laws are reversed, or overturned by liberal courts. Social views "evolve" to embrace greater levels of human depravity and it is called "freedom."

[Sword of Geddon]

There are plenty of times when law has restrained evil. That in fact was why God created the institution of government in the first place.

And the Church is definitely here to combat evil in all its forms. It is the libertarian, the progressives and other infiltrations of the Church that have deluded the Church's purpose, recreating Christ as a sandal-wearing hippy from the 60s.

[Sword of Geddon]

When you see injustice, you are supposed to oppose it. When you see those unable to defend themselves, you are supposed to defend them. Anything wrong we are to right with all the power we are given.

Are not Christians supposed to pursue all that is good, all that is right and true? Is that not the path of the righteous? Whether it be the salt of the earth or a light in the darkness, that is the role of the Christian, just as much as the great commission is.

[Sword of Geddon]

It does not matter if righteousness is not the popular thing, what matters is the righteousness itself.

[Exit40]

It does not matter if righteousness is not the popular thing, what matters is the righteousness itself.

Which belongs to Our God alone. Of ourselves we can do nothing for there is no righteousness in us, except the Lord who sustains us.

James 1:16-27
Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion [is] vain.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Brother, I hope you can find some peace of mind to accept the things that must come to pass on this world. I understand your anger, had to bear the burden of it myself for a long time. And it is a burden that can consume you, if you continue on the path that you must do something to correct the world. Yet we must do something right ? If you could lay down your life to save the world would you ? I believe you would, but wait, someone has already done that ! So there is no need for it, besides which we can't even save ourselves or anyone else for that matter.

I suspect your anger comes from a deep, deep love, and caring for others. Even so, this does not come from you, but God's Law written on your heart, to which you are responding. So that's a good thing, right ? Yet to respond with anger is a path to self righteousness and destruction. We are not to confront evil, but stand in it's way. Here is where we turn the other cheek. Here is where the Lord expresses His power through us, when we simply stand. Stand before evil, stand in front of the defenseless, stand with willingness to completely trust the Lord to work His own will. And here is the Peace, in Him who is the author of it.

Jam 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

Praying for you Brother.

God Bless You

David

[GodsStudent]

Oh, David.....what a beautiful contribution to this thread. Bless you!!!!!

[Exit40]

Sometimes I get lucky.

God Bless You

David

[Abiding in His Word]

Beautiful words of wisdom once again, David. Thank you.

[Exit40]

Mat 5:9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

God Bless

David

[burien1]

Mat 5:9 Blessed [are] the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

God Bless

David

God Bless you, David !
I always pray that the Lord will give me His eyes to see, and help me love with his heart. And as he conforms me to His image, he is doing so.

One of my favorite songs: LINK

[Sword of Geddon]

Eze 3:16 At the end of seven days the word of the LORD came to me:
Eze 3:17 "Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me.
Eze 3:18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for [fn] his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.
Eze 3:19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.
Eze 3:20 "Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.
Eze 3:21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself."
Eze 3:22 The hand of the LORD was upon me there, and he said to me, "Get up and go out to the plain, and there I will speak to you."
Eze 3:23 So I got up and went out to the plain. And the glory of the LORD was standing there, like the glory I had seen by the Kebar River, and I fell facedown.
Eze 3:24 Then the Spirit came into me and raised me to my feet. He spoke to me and said: "Go, shut yourself inside your house.
Eze 3:25 And you, son of man, they will tie with ropes; you will be bound so that you cannot go out among the people.
Eze 3:26 I will make your tongue stick to the roof of your mouth so that you will be silent and unable to rebuke them, though they are a rebellious house.
Eze 3:27 But when I speak to you, I will open your mouth and you shall say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says.' Whoever will listen let him listen, and whoever will refuse let him refuse; for they are a rebellious house.

[Sword of Geddon]

I think whenever we have the opportunity to do the right thing we should take it. If we have the chance to help the helpless, we should help.

Evil wins when the good do nothing..I don't think God would want us to do nothing if we could do something.

[Exit40]

I think whenever we have the opportunity to do the right thing we should take it. If we have the chance to help the helpless, we should help.

Evil wins when the good do nothing..I don't think God would want us to do nothing if we could do something.

I agree. But how are we to witness to the world. By being salt and light. Explaining light seems easy enough, enlightenment as to who we all are and that we are pilgrims and strangers here, coming from another land. For those of us that haven't realized this yet can we just say to them, we are born naked, wet, and hungry and then it gets worse. Or how about life is hard then you die. Not much hope in those statements, yet they are true to those who have no hope. So how do pilgrims and strangers act in a foreign land. Cautiously at first would seem reasonable, and certainly gracious to our host countries. If we have a message of hope we gotta use some common sense here, we can't come storming in to take over after all. That is how the world got in this condition, so it isn't likely we are going to correct it with that behavior. Humans are a stiff necked bunch anyway, afraid of any change, fear being the key word here, because
' THEY KNOW THEY ARE GOING TO DIE ', they just don't know where they are going, so they attempt to pile earthly things about them to be comfortable in life so they can ignore the inevitable, for now. And they make up the craziest stuff out of superstitions and lies for their own comfort. Everyone has a faith, it's where we place it that counts. They don't know they are pilgrims too, and so are unaware of the nature of true Faith, and the 'Lightness' of it's yoke.

So how about salt. Physical salt preserves food, Spiritual salt preserves the Truth of the Word. In both senses, too much salt ruins it, it becomes offensive by misapplication. If the world is the ground where we sow seeds we have to be careful not to use too much, it can sterilize the ground we are trying to sow and our efforts become self contradictory to our purpose. We don't witness with salt anyway, except by the example of our Faith in which we preserve the Truth in which we believe. And if we don't know it, we can't show it. Otherwise we might as well just throw salt in their eyes and walk away, but be careful not to rub your own eyes. Those won't be tears of joy. So to preserve the Word we have to first know it. Not a real head slapper there, but it does make me wonder just how much I think I know. I used to have a mind like a steel thingy, not so much any more. I love to quote Scripture in appropriate settings, sometimes I do when I am attempting to reason with others. When it's the best, and I mean Best, is when the need for it is there, and it just pops into mind, and I speak it with love yet boldly in the power of it, standing on the Rock that supports me, and watch the power of it work in others. See the thing about that is, the Word is already there in their hearts too, they just don't know the exact words and from Whom they come. But their reaction to them is a witness to me of the greatness of Our Lord, and a stumble bum like me for a moment holds a piece of the Kingdom vividly in my heart, the sharing of which is the treasure of my life, and the recognition of His power over mens hearts, and His great love for us overwhelms me too. Stepping back for a moment, I knew His Words because I read them, and I got to speak them for Him, yet not of myself. Otherwise I'd be just like some other teacher heaped up on myself speaking empty words containing no power whatsoever. Who do you wanna be like. Then be so. Know the Word and live it, endure patiently and pray the Lord will speak through you one day, so you can witness Him in action. But realize too it may only be for one moment in the entirety of your life He will call on you to do so. Filled up so, you will know it is His Salt, His Light, His Peace, that is the Power. Until then be a cracked pot, leaking light and salt as you are able. And for Heavens sake, lighten up on yourself.
We're gonna get there despite our best efforts, it's the Lord that does the work.

Col 4:2 ¶ Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving;
Col 4:3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:
Col 4:4 That I may make it manifest, as I ought to speak.
Col 4:5 Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time.
Col 4:6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

He is so amazing ! How can we help but love Him.

God Bless You Brother

David